What does this mean?

[ardchoille]

I'm currently planning to purchase some wool tartan from http://www.scotweb.co.uk and would like to learn something about their descriptions before I make the purchase. What is a "tuck-in" selvage and how does it differe from a traditional selvage? Which is best for kiltmaking or does it matter?

[Aldisimo]

See http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...546/index.html.

[ardchoille]

See http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...546/index.html.

I did, but didn't understand it.

[Bugbear]

I did, but didn't understand it.

ardchoille, did you look at this one?

DWFII's thread "what am I seeing here?"

You know who's post to look for; it's the sixth post down.

[ardchoille]

ardchoille, did you look at this one?

DWFII's thread "what am I seeing here?"

You know who's post to look for; it's the sixth post down.

Aha! Thank you Ted, this is very educational. This is also a good explanation of tuck in selvage:

Basically in a typical closed kilting selvedge, each thread is wrapped back around in the weaving and the thread is only cut when you are done with that color. So in terms of the Black Watch tartan pictured, each green section of the tartan is woven with one continuous green thread. Then you switch to black, blue, etc.

With the newer rapier looms each thread is cut and then tucked back up 1/2" or so into the fabric. So you still have a closed selvedge suitable for kilting, but the the bottom 1/2" of the cloth will be a bit thicker, and in the heavy weight cloths especially, this is more noticable. The better mills, such as Lochcarron, take great care in the way the tartan is laid out so that this difference in thickness will correspond with a line in the tartan that "masks" the difference visually. I've seen cloth where this has not been done well (for instance, search the archives for some of the feedback on past runs of the X Marks tartan from Fraser & Kirkbright).

This type of selvedge is becoming more and more common in the tartan industry as older looms break down, and are being replaced with rapier looms.

And as a final note, one side of the fabric will typically be "cleaner" than the other in terms of how the type of selvedge looks. It is important that the kiltmaker use the good face of the cloth for the outside of the kilt. I would guess that the picture in the first post is the "bad" side of the fabric, so hopefully this was on the inside of the kilt.

M

It is my opinion that the tuck-in selvedge looks better than the traditional closed selvedge.

I really enjoy reading posts by the kiltmakers

[Barb T]

There is nothing that looks better than a traditional closed selvedge. You can't see the selvedge, and you can't feel it. The fabric is absolutely perfect all the way to the edge.

A modern tuck-in selvedge shows. Plain and simple - the tartan looks different and feels different in the turned part (that's about 5/8" from the edge). The color isn't the same, and the texture isn't the same. And that's not including any "fuzz" that sometimes shows up where the threads are cut. If the tartan sett is carefully laid out, the color difference is minimized, but you still have twice as many weft threads in that 5/8" than elsewhere in the tartan, and it's thicker and stiffer. If the tartan sett isn't laid out carefully, however, the turned back threads can make it look like the colors have bled. Some of you remember that first run of 13 oz XMarks tartan.....

I am not a fan of a tuck-in selvedge. Not much you can do about it, though, as most mills have gone that route. If I remember correctly, however (and Matt can correct me if I'm wrong), House of Edgar just spent a lot of money on looms that do a traditional closed selvedge. And D.C. Dalgliesh does all of their custom weaves on a traditional loom as well, and they have far and away the nicest tartan on the market, in my estimation. It is a dream to make a kilt from. Ask Rex Tremende - his new kilt is a Dalgliesh custom weave, and it is spectacular fabric. Same with McMurdo's British Royal Naval Association tartan.

[ardchoille]

If I remember correctly, however (and Matt can correct me if I'm wrong), House of Edgar just spent a lot of money on looms that do a traditional closed selvedge. And D.C. Dalgliesh does all of their custom weaves on a traditional loom as well, and they have far and away the nicest tartan on the market, in my estimation. It is a dream to make a kilt from.

I believe you are correct.. I read this in a post he made not too long ago.

[Bugbear]

* Sigh * Guess that meansLOCHCARRON OF SCOTLAND's Highland Granite tartan is a tuck-in selvedge... When the time comes that will be the tartan of my first traditional kilt, so I guess I'll have to live with it.

I'm even more moss with envy now that I found out Rex's new kilt has a closed selvedge .

* I'm only joking about having "to live with it." It's a wonderful tartan. It's 16 Oz Strome fabric ! That's what matters to me.

[ardchoille]

* Sigh * Guess that meansLOCHCARRON OF SCOTLAND's Highland Granite tartan is a tuck-in selvedge... When the time comes that will be the tartan of my first traditional kilt, so I guess I'll have to live with it.

I'm even more moss with envy now that I found out Rex's new kilt has a closed selvedge .

All 9 of my tanks have a tuck in selvedge and, to be honest, I quite like it. You have to get up really close to even notice it. And when you do see it, it looks like a normal part of the tartan, probably because the weaver took pains to make sure the selvedge aligned with the color patterns. It feels different than the rest of the tartan. But who is going to be feeling the edge of your kilt anyway?

[Galician]

Not that I'm going to lose any sleep over this, but ..... since I do have an order in the queue for a kilt in this tartan from Professor Tewksbury, I can't help but wonder if that is the case.