dress shirt question

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

davidg is correct ... a wing collar shirt exposes the band of the tie and was only ever intended to be used with white pique tie & vest, where the band would be unnoticed. That's where the designations "white tie" or "black tie" came from, indicating the degree of formality of an occasion.

Actually, while wing collars are required for formal evening dress (white tie) they are, and always have been, proper for semi-formal attire (black tie) as well. Fold over collars really don't make much of an appearance with black tie until the mid-to late 1930s, and were not firmly entrenched as part of black tie until after WWII, at which time collars tended to become attached to the shirt, rather than a separate item.

The choice between a standing collar or "turnover" collar with black tie is really up to the individual, although the following guidelines (from the 1950s) may be of some assistance in making the choice. Generally, turnover collars are best suited to less formal black tie events; dinners, the theater or opera, etc. Wing collars should be worn if the invitation states white tie/black tie, or one is attending a more formal evening event, and this would include any dinner where the hostess/host has indicated the presence of a "guest of honour".

These days, when men's formal dress is most often seen as only an accessory to what the ladies are wearing, AND when formal dress is not a regular part of most men's lives, we often see men looking like they are in costume rather than dressing with the elegance of former days. Ron.

I agree that it's sad that men (and women) no longer dress for the occasion, as it takes little or no extra effort to dress well and dress properly.

[Tobus]

If it were me, I'd wear the fold-over collar. Especially since you're not the groom.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

If it were me, I'd wear the fold-over collar. Especially since you're not the groom.

I'd wear the fold over collar because it's more comfortable...

[artificer]

I'd wear the fold over collar because it's more comfortable...

It's more comfortable AND more flattering to more necks. Not everyone is a graceful swan, you know.

ith:

[Mainer In Exile]

My first question would be: is the wedding to be in the daytime or in the evening? That will determine whether the "correct" attire is morning dress or evening dress, and then you can choose the appropriate traditional Scottish version.

For morning dress, the most comprehensive guide is here: http://andrewsandpygott.wordpress.com/ And Artificer has already linked aboove to the Black Tie Guide, an invaluable resource for both evening and daytime formal wear.

As it's your own daughter's wedding, do keep in mind that as the father of the bride, you should dress well--as you clearly intend. Some arbiters of style suggest that you may dress more formally than the groomsmen, but not more than the groom. Others disagree, as do I. If the groom and groomsmen have chosen to dress in suits or--heaven forfend--tuxedoes for a daytime ceremony, there's nothing wrong with you're dressing correctly in a morning suit or the equivalent.

I confess: I wore a white tux for my daytime wedding, and my groomsmen wore pastel ones. But it was 1975, and we knew no better then!

Allen

[Jack Daw]

I vote for turn-down collar. It's what I wear.

[creagdhubh]

Actually, while wing collars are required for formal evening dress (white tie) they are, and always have been, proper for semi-formal attire (black tie) as well. Fold over collars really don't make much of an appearance with black tie until the mid-to late 1930s, and were not firmly entrenched as part of black tie until after WWII, at which time collars tended to become attached to the shirt, rather than a separate item.

The choice between a standing collar or "turnover" collar with black tie is really up to the individual, although the following guidelines (from the 1950s) may be of some assistance in making the choice. Generally, turnover collars are best suited to less formal black tie events; dinners, the theater or opera, etc. Wing collars should be worn if the invitation states white tie/black tie, or one is attending a more formal evening event, and this would include any dinner where the hostess/host has indicated the presence of a "guest of honour".

I agree that it's sad that men (and women) no longer dress for the occasion, as it takes little or no extra effort to dress well and dress properly.

***

My vote is for the turn-down (spread) collar as well. This is what I wear almost 100% of the time.




Cheers,

[Dixiecat]

https://www.paulfredrick.com/special/special.aspx

Friend told me about this deal for shirts with sizing customized for the purchaser. Not quite bespoke, but the price is pretty darn good.

[Tobus]

Thank you for posting that, Dixiecat! At that price, I just had to give it a whirl and order one. Plain white shirts aren't really my cup of tea for kilt-wearing, but it'll come in handy for other purposes.

[Tobus]

Just an FYI, in case anybody cares. My shirt from Paul Fredrick came in today (per the special introductory price posted above), and I'm very happy with it. That's a nice quality shirt for a very good price. AND - they also sent me an email with some more special pricing, as well as a hard copy of their catalog with another special code for a "buy one, get one free" offer. Some good deals to be had there!