What do I do differently with kilt #2?

[usonian]

Short question: Will an inadequately shaped apron cause the inverted pleat to pull forward? (See photo below.)

Long question:

I recently completed my first "practice" kilt, an 8-yarder made from black denim, fairly faithfully to The Art of Kiltmaking.

The biggest deviation I made from the books is that I was conservative with the shaping of the apron and underapron; I had read a thread here somewhere recommending against doing a curved flare for the apron and underapron edges, so I just drew the edges straight out on a fairly gentle angle.

Now that I see where everything hangs and lines up when I put the garment on, the reason for that flared shape is much more obvious and I see where more of an angle would have made a big difference. As it turned out the apron edge is a bit skimpy and lets the underapron show through (not helped by the fact that I decided not to put a fringe on it because the denim didn't fringe nicely), but beyond that it seems like the front part of the inverted pleat is pulling forward more than it should:



The kilt seems to fit pretty well at both waist and hips; the pleats hang straight down in the back and in general there aren't any places that feel like they're strained. The fell is a little bit longer than it should be, but My intuition tells me that the inverse pleat would hang much more naturally if the apron was wide enough at the bottom to hang straight down and cover the underapron. Any tips or observations would be much appreciated!

[xman]

I would say that if you fee the fell is a bit too long, shorten it. I had the opposite problem, being short le- ... uh, long bodied and am happy I now do so. Each shape is different.

[Paul Henry]

I suspect that part of the problem ( if it really is a problem) lies within the use of the denim. Cotton/hemp/denim type fabrics simply do not act or react in the same way as wool. There is little "give" or mouldability. I've made many kilts in denim but I have to treat them differently to those I make in wool. I think if the under apron edge was most flared that a lot of the problem would be averted, and it might not be too late to unpick a bit and then re crease/press it.

[tundramanq]

I have a similar issue with Rockys casuals without the underapron reverse pleat - they just continue under, for the adjustable waist. I wear them low on my hips. The sewdowns taper to about 1.5 inches over the last 3 pleats. I have thought about shortening the sewdown even further and extending it over 5 pleats of taper. Currently I just pin and press the last two pleats where they want to lay when I have it on and all lays flat.

[Pleater]

I find that I have to lift the inner fold of the under apron pleats about 1/4 of an inch higher than the top of the aprons. This pulls the outer fold into place when the kilt is being worn.

Pleats gape when the inner fold is pushing towards the outer one, and by lifting it a little the push is counteracted. The push is a feature of wrapping a mostly two dimensional garment around a three dimensional body.

As the kilt is already completed try making a small horizontal dart in the inner fold, horizontally and as close to the waistband as you can and hold it with a few stitches. If that cures the problem then you can experiment with different sized darts to see how much lift you need to put into the pleat on the next kilt.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Tartan Hiker]

To me it appears that the kilt is too tight in the hips. If there is not enough room for your rump, or if you strap it on too tightly, a gape like this is often the result. There really needs to be some "wiggle room" in the hips. That's why many of us take this measurement while the customer is wearing pants...it automatically provides that extra room where it is needed.
If this is the case, you can fix this by losing either some material from the reverse pleat. That will require you to re-do the waist band along the underapron (and the lining), but at least it will fix the problem.

[tundramanq]

Pleater, you made me think of this. This dart is how I countered the tension at the hip and shortened the inner apron so it dosent hang below the over apron at the left edge. 3/4 inch dart tapering to zero across the inner apron. Almost totally fixed the gape - the iron did the rest.


Have to see if Rocky will do a 4 inch instead of a 7 inch sewdown for future kilts for me..

[usonian]

Thanks so much, everyone. Revisiting my measurements (I don't remember if I took the hip measurement with or without pants, or whether I've just gotten fatter since I began last December) the hip measurement is definitely a bit skimpy. While the kilt doesn't feel tight around the hips, given the amount of stitching steeking and stabilizing across the pleats it makes sense that the fabric would pull at the sides, where it's not so heavily reinforced. Probably a combination of all the things mentioned in this thread so far!

[tundramanq]

My biggest enemy is my own right hand - being used to Utilikilts, I sweep the pleats back on both sides when I sit - trainwreaking the lay on traditionals.

[Pleater]

Tundramanq, that is the exact same fix, except that, as I need to 'lose' less fabric, I just lift the whole adjustment into the waistline and the unwanted fabric is folded over beneath the band.

Scrutinising the photo of the original problem - there are small horizontal folds in the fell - that is indicating that the garment is trying to lift up to provide more space inside it - in other words it is a bit small.

All garments require 'ease' - a little extra size that allows it to flow over the body rather fit like a second skin. If there is to be internal reinforcement and lining then they take up space too, allowance must be made for that too.

Anne the Pleater :ootd: