More on Septs

[Mike_Oettle]

You are entirely correct, EagleJCS. When the German forces first reached Poland (in 1939) and later the fringes of the Soviet Union (during Operation Barbarossa), there was an orgy of bloodletting by local anti-Semites who shot Jews out of hand before the SS even arrived to march people off to concentration camps.

MacSpadger, your theory about Jewish Gordons in the Baltic states may be entirely correct. But I would be interested to know where the Jewish Douglases came from.
And just to confuse the matter further, there is an Indian family in South Africa that has the surname Gordhan. Our current Finance Minister is Pravin Gordhan.
Regards,
Mike

[MacSpadger]

MacSpadger, your theory about Jewish Gordons in the Baltic states may be entirely correct. But I would be interested to know where the Jewish Douglases came from.

Oh, it's not a theory, I have been shown family trees and printed documents, Gordon was a name in use in the aforementioned areas by the late 1700's at the latest. The Hebrew is גורדון and the Russian is Гордон

Jewish Douglases, well, that can be someone elses quest. There are many examples of Jews settling in the UK during the 20th century and taking on Scottish names, I was just interested in the Gordon story because there was a claim on here that Glasgow Jews had worn the Gordon tartan for 100 years, and through that it had the possibility of having a connection with the work that I am involved in. As it turns out, the connection is fuzzy, to say the very least, and it doesn't connect with evidence, but it's been fun for me anyway.
Surnames are widespread and not limited to one area.
The most common Scottish surnames, Smith, Wilson, Brown, Thomson, Walker, Taylor, Clark, Young, Miller, etc, are also found in other countires as well. Having such a surname does not mean a Scottish ancestor. Gaelic surnames are helpful in that we can pinpoint the origin. Although a Lanarkshire name, Douglas is derived from the Gaelic dubh glas, (dooh-glass), so we can be sure of it's origins for our own Scottish Douglas family, although they themselves were 11th century Flemish immigrants who originally had the family names Arkenbald and Freskin.

I don't know much about Jewish Douglases, except maybe the well known Issur Danielovitch Demsky, who used the screen name Kirk Douglas. I AM SPARTACUS!!

[Mike_Oettle]

Well, the Douglases I had in mind were a family living in South Africa until a decade or two ago (they emigrated to Australia, like many South African Jews).
They came to South Africa from Scotland a few generations back.
Not sure how they came to be called Douglas, but it certainly was not as random an event as Kirk Douglas’s name change before entering the US Navy (I wonder what his rabbi thought of his being called Kirk!).
Regards,
Mike

[James the Gilbert]

My last name is Gilbert, Clan Buchanan says I belong to their clan.....Are they wrong?
Bailey is also in my heritage..They say there was a clan Baillie...are they wrong?
Should I sell my Buchanan Kilt because they may be wrong? Not further pursue any family history to Scotland?
You have surely put doubt in my mind to my claim of Scottish heritage.
-Advice?

P.S. I was also told that the Jewish faith is a religion and not a nationality, anyone of any nation could be jewish...Is this also false?

[California Highlander]

I'm also a Gilbert, but most of my close Scottish ancestors are from Wick, Inverness, and other north-east parts. Buchanan lands are far away! More closely connected to McIntosh and other Chattan clans, and some Gunn families in there too. Lots of nice tartans for future kilts!

Keep the Buchanan kilt, nice tartan! I have a couple of Buchanan shirts, but not a kilt in it.

[MacSpadger]

My last name is Gilbert, Clan Buchanan says I belong to their clan.....Are they wrong?
Bailey is also in my heritage..They say there was a clan Baillie...are they wrong?
Should I sell my Buchanan Kilt because they may be wrong? Not further pursue any family history to Scotland?
You have surely put doubt in my mind to my claim of Scottish heritage.
-Advice?

James, you simply have to check where your ancestors came from. Gilbert is a name of Germanic origin that became very popular in Engalnd during the Middle Ages. Check the Wiki here or the Geni.com entry here.
It's not a name I am that familiar with in Scotland. I live in the former Buchanan territories and the local pipe band wears Weathered Buchanan tartan and uses the Buchanan crest, but Gilbert is not a name I hear in these parts.
Surnames mean nothing in terms of septs anyway, check my list of surnames earlier in this thread regarding the MacDonalds of Glencoe, plus Clan Cameron also list Gilbert as a sept. Check your family tree as far back as you can if you want to be sure. Otherwise, just enjoy wearing your Buchanan tartan.

[creagdhubh]

James, you simply have to check where your ancestors came from...

***

[Chas]

Strange, this site:

http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/Main.aspx

Give a French origin. As in 'shilbear'

Regards

Chas

[creagdhubh]

Strange, this site:

http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/Main.aspx

Give a French origin. As in 'shilbear'

Regards

Chas

Interesting, Chas. I always thought the surname "Gilbert" was indeed of French origin. I have several friends with this surname and they have told me they are of French ancestry. I suppose it can all be rather subjective, though.

Cheers,

[Chas]

Interesting, Chas. I always thought the surname "Gilbert" was indeed of French origin. I have several friends with this surname and they have told me they are of French ancestry. I suppose it can all be rather subjective, though.

Cheers,

I can't find the reference, but I thought that the original Gilbert came over with William the Conqueror.

Gilbert is pronounced softer like the cheese Camembert, rather than the harder Saxon AlBert, or EgBert, or EngelBert.

That is my understanding.

Regards

Chas