Flag Kilts

[MacWage]

I was wondering about the various thoughts of kilts made with patterns that are based closely upon various flags.

Recently, there have been threads on the Scot saltire and the Confederate "battle flag" (now in lock down jail). In these threads different opinions about the rightness or wrongness of kilts in flag patterns.

Thus far, I have intentionally avoided too literal iterpretations of flags on anythig other than shirts. On kilts, I have leaned toward tartan representations of them instead, such as Confederate, American Bicentenial, Irish national, etc. Thereby, the tartan represents the meaning intended by the flag, but in a much more subtle manner.

As an amatuer vexiologist (studier of flags), I was wondering about different opinions, such as "fine by me" or "seeing flag _______made into a kilt highly offends me", followed by reasoning and rationale for that opinion.

Now gents and lasses, lets try to keep this civil and out of lockdown.

[Kilted KT]

while I think the flags on kilts looks pretty cool ( especially some of the salitre kilts), but I've got reservations about wearing the flag of my country about my waist and sitting on it.

[MacWage]

I ask BECAUSE this forum is INTERNATIONAL. Therefore, the opinions SHOULD vary drastically.

I am most curious as to the rationales and would like to understand the various POVs expresses on the various other threads.

If moderators see this thread as out of line and want to lock it or delete it. Just PM me as to the reasoning and I'll be fine with that.

[mddock58]

As with many others, I agree most kilts with a "flag" design, are firstly designed as a kilt, and the flag represented is intended to be honored in it's use.

Therefore I don't have a problem with them in general. There is also the fact that others may find offense with them, and dealing with that can cause difficulties while wearing them.

This is, and always will be a sensitive subject, for some more than others, so as MacWage states:

Now gents and lasses, lets try to keep this civil and out of lockdown.

[bubba]

To me it seems disrespectful. Wearing a garment made in the colors of a flag is one thing, but the actual flag pattern just doesn't seem right. In counterpoint, I think it was Ambrose Bierce who wrote that flags were akin to signs that used to appear in vacant lots in London saying "Rubbish May Be Shot Here". In all, it's a tough call these days with standards so different from when I was a kid.

[Livingston]

I have mixed feelings about them. They look great and the planning to get them to come out correctly must be much harder than on a standard tartan. That being said, I don't like the idea of sitting on any national flag. It seems too disrespectful even tho the intentions are not.

[Mike1]

If moderators see this thread as out of line and want to lock it or delete it. Just PM me as to the reasoning and I'll be fine with that.

We're fine with it, so long as everyone remains resepctful of others' opinions and there are no 'hot-buttons' being pushed.

And to chime in - I cannot see how I would be respectful to a flag when I am sitting on it. As for those flags that I might consider sitting on , why would I want to promote them while standing up?

[Panache]

Apparently when a character in the 60's movie "Easy Rider" wore a US Flag on the back of his jacket it was considered disrespectful, now days that would be considered patriotic. So this is an issue that goes beyond just kilts.

To me it isn't so much should a flag be worn or not on a kilt (or any other type of clothing for that matter) but HOW it is worn. Is the flag presented in a positve manner? Is it clean? Is it tasteful? Is the wearer wearing it with pride?

I think if one is to wear a representation of a flag as part of one's attire the answer to the above questions must be YES!

Cheers

[phil h]

union kilts make some nice looking flag kilts, I would wear the England one if the back was black, I don't like the red kilt the flag comes on. I would not have a problem with the saltire on the front or the back, if I was Scottish, I would wear one, but I realise this is a touchy issue for some. I think the saltire kilt with the cross on the back is an amazing thing. remember its not a flag, it's a kilt, big difference, I believe in showing respect for flags, but I also think wearing a kilt that represents a flag is the utmost show of respect.if there was a nicer looking union jack kilt or a George cross one (like my avitar), I would wear it.other than that, try wearing your flag on a t-shirt or a belt buckle.
take a look at my belt buckles
http://mykilts.tripod.com/id11.html

[auld argonian]

The wearing the flag thing has been controversial to say the least. Abbie Hoffman appeared on the Tonight Show some time back wearing an American Flag shirt...the NBC censors found a way to blur his shirt out when the show aired to sidestep any controversy that might have occured. Years later it seems that wearing the American Flag somehow became socially acceptable...all manner of clothing with stars and stripes motifs became available. The message seemed to be that if you were wearing the Flag as a sign of protest or sarcastically it was a bad thing but if you were wearing it patriotically it was acceptable. Trouble is how do you tell the difference? Too many mixed messages involved for there to be an easy answer. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Nobody really knows where the lines are and when they are being crossed.

I think that it is relatively easy, no matter how cool we think an article of clothing that portrays anyones flag is, to refrain from wearing it. There are lots of shirts and jerseys that portray various national colors...those generally seem, to me, to be pretty acceptable. The problem comes up when the flag is depicted on the bottom half of the outfit...particularly on the area that is "sat upon", so to speak...then, it seems, folks can get a little testy. I remember in the days of my youth that some of the more radical types sewed American Flag patches on the seats of their jeans so that they could demonstrate their disdain for the country...in retrospect it seems like a very adolescent and pointless form of protest, doesn't it? I'm sure that some who see these flag kilts look at it the other way around, as a gesture of support or patriotism but it still seems like there are better ways to demonstrate that.

The Confederate Flag thing is just one of those controversies that may never get resolved...just too much baggage attached to it, just too much unsettled ill feelings. I'm sure, though, that if you announced that you were wearing a CSA tartan kilt you would still have people who would challenge it just because of those old associations. Pity that there seems to be no way to find peace and resolution to a conflict that happened so long ago...I wish that there was...takes a lot of empathy for and among all parties involved.

Best

AA