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  1. #51
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    Aye, Colin, but what aboot white hose? Blame them on the hire shops or blame them on the media, but they came from somewhere- and not from white sheep, which have been around a lot longer than 1745. One reason the kilt was such a natural for hire shops is that they were already renting tuxedoes- another garment most men wear, but infrequently. When one stylistic decision is repeated across an entire retail empire, its effects can be considerable.

    I believe there are factors which have not yet been mentioned, both stabilising and changing- Although individual kilt wearers might be isolated, we ought to be able to account for the influence of a relatively small number of tailors and highland outfitters. It might be that gentlemen from Inverness would order their kit from one maker while those in Fort William would order theirs from another, but the number of suppliers - and their employees- would directly affect the fluidity of THCD styles.

    While you cite Brigadoon as a likely negative influence, I think you might consider its "ambassadorial" reach. Granted, among the strictly faithful, Brigadoonery became a bash-worthy bogey, but, besides that, Brigadoon brought visions of the highlands ( wrong, cringeworthy, or otherwise) to the attention of millions. You mention generations. I was about to argue that a generation is traditionally 25 years when I checked out the release of two film versions of The Great Gatsby- once in 1974 and then 29 years later in 2013.

    I suspect cringeing goes on less than we might imagine. The person being satirized may not necessarily recognize himself in the fun-house mirror, despite the laughs of his wife, or nephew or neighbor. Some academic with plenty of data could compare the cycles of popularity of, say "gangster" suits with the release dates of big hit gangster movies. Look at long hair, or short hair, for that matter, and how its popularity spreads through the media. As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity, and I think that holds for Harry Lauder, Bing Crosby, even Rob Lowe.

    While you are wandering around in all of that data, why not bring this thing full circle a little and see how the kilted diaspora have affected THCD? Does someone know when most North American St Andrew's Societies were founded? Can we chart sales trends for kilts in North America? Or TO North America? Whether the numbers drive the change or simply reflect it, I suspect there is information to be derived from the growth of sales- if indeed there has been a growth.

    I offer none of this as criticism, but only as a way to help you avoid doing your real work.
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLowlife View Post
    Aye, Colin, but what aboot white hose?
    ...
    I offer none of this as criticism, but only as a way to help you avoid doing your real work.
    Well, as for my real work, maybe I can get some extra credit towards my PhD for all the Xmarking I've done over the last six years? A graduate diploma in THCD would be nice

    I agree that it would be interesting if someone could collect the kind of data you are asking about and do some statistical analysis. That won't be me, however, because quantitative research methods aren't my department Qualitatively, perhaps someone with a collection of old catalogues from the major Highland outfitters and tailors might be able to parse their individual influence on THCD, but I'm happy enough just to recognize that it was there.

    White hose are not only a rental/hire thing, but also a legacy of pipe bands. I maintain that participating in the tradition, however, means more than just wearing a kilt, and part of THCD is actually an opposition or resistance to both commercial standardization and the appearance of wearing a uniform. Again, it's a question of distinction.

    That being said, the influence of rental/hire/pipers, as embodied in white hose, can't be denied. On the other hand, black is the new white, as shown in the very trendy rented outfits below. we'll have to see how these trends play out in the long term...

    image from The Wedding Hire Company


    Cultural cringe may be less obvious among devotees of the kilt, but there is a cross-section of folks in Scotland who are totally over the whole tartanry thing. I read a BBC Scotland article, for example, that suggested Scots identity was struggling with a "kilted straightjacket." Perhaps THCD may be more durable among Highlanders, rather than the nation as a whole?

    I couldn't tell you exactly how much cultural cringe there was during the early 20th century, but I suspect it has long been a factor among people who take their kilting seriously. It is a double-edged sword to have Harry Lauder and Brigadoon, or more recently Braveheart, acting as ambassadors. Maybe it's good for sales of whisky, shortbread, and tartan tat, but it can also spread images of Highland attire as an antiquated costume, rather than a contemporary tradition.

    That's an interesting question about the influence of the kilted diaspora on THCD. If such a thing exists, I think it might be relatively recent for several reasons. Back in the early 20th century the vast majority of Highland outfitters and tailors catering to civilians were probably still in Scotland, so that's where people were getting their kit. Air travel and circulation of media were also less prevalent. And I don't think I've seen near as many vintage, civilian photos from that period that were taken in the diaspora

    Over the course of the 20th century that has changed, and in the information age of the early 21st century, the global village is far more connected and transnational. Just look at this article. It was written by a couple of Canadians with Scottish heritage and the pictures were supplied by an international group of THCD kilt wearers One could say we are at least participating in the tradition, though what influence Xmarks may have remains to be seen.
    Last edited by CMcG; 2nd September 14 at 08:35 PM. Reason: adding a photo
    - Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
    - An t'arm breac dearg

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  4. #53
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    I'm a bit late to the party, being just back from holiday. I just want to congratulate Colin and Nathan for this great thread and thank them for the considerable effort that clearly went in to making it. Well done, guys!

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  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgacus View Post
    I'm a bit late to the party, being just back from holiday. I just want to congratulate Colin and Nathan for this great thread and thank them for the considerable effort that clearly went in to making it. Well done, guys!
    Hope you had a great holiday! Glad to have you back!
    Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
    Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
    “Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.

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  8. #55
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    I'm definitely late to this thread. A good synopsis, well done.

    A couple of date corrections to the OP if I may. The Battle of Culloden took place in 1746 not 1745 and the Act of Proscription was effective from 01 August 1747 not 1746.

    George IV's visit was popularised and promoted by Scott and helped codify the concept of clan tartans but the Highland Revival which began in the early 1780s was equally if not more important and the precursor what was to come. It differed from the popularization the surrounded the 1822 Levee in that it was principally the preserve of the Highland gentry many of whom were involved with the Highland Society of London and/or one of the various Celtic Societies.

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  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    I'm definitely late to this thread. A good synopsis, well done.

    A couple of date corrections to the OP if I may. The Battle of Culloden took place in 1746 not 1745 and the Act of Proscription was effective from 01 August 1747 not 1746.

    George IV's visit was popularised and promoted by Scott and helped codify the concept of clan tartans but the Highland Revival which began in the early 1780s was equally if not more important and the precursor what was to come. It differed from the popularization the surrounded the 1822 Levee in that it was principally the preserve of the Highland gentry many of whom were involved with the Highland Society of London and/or one of the various Celtic Societies.
    Thanks very much for your comments, figheadair. I have amended the OP.
    Last edited by CMcG; 3rd September 14 at 01:17 PM.
    - Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
    - An t'arm breac dearg

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  12. #57
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    Well done! Always nice to have well-researched information at your digital fingertips for reference. The photos are great examples.
    Mark Anthony Henderson
    Virtus et Victoria - Virtue and Victory
    "I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." - Douglas Adams

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  14. #58
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    Excellent thread but oh woe is me... Of the hundreds of photos I've posted here, not a single one makes it to the final edit... (sob!) I am a broken man I tell you.

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  16. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by English Bloke View Post
    Excellent thread but oh woe is me... Of the hundreds of photos I've posted here, not a single one makes it to the final edit... (sob!) I am a broken man I tell you.
    English Bloke, I like your style and I'm not sure how we missed you... perhaps because of your propensity to post anywhere-but-the-traditional-sub-forum

    My apologies. Let me rectify this situation forthwith:



    - Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
    - An t'arm breac dearg

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  18. #60
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    This thread was a sticky for a while. For some reason it is no longer a sticky. Do any mods know why that might be? @Father Bill @ThistleDown
    Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
    Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
    “Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.

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