Enough is Enough

[Mike n NC]

In the first place, "condescending tripe" hardly seems a civilized response. If you wish to disagree please do it in a gentlemanly manner. And in the second place, my statements are demonstrably factual. So please do me the courtesy of either refuting me logically or remaining silent.

Actually, from what I am seeing, it is a very gentlemanly and civilized response. Since I am not usually considered either, except by those that matter, I'll call it like I see it...unadulterated B.S.!!


Archangel with your comments about pot stirrers I'm surpurised you even bother to respond to this guy. Oh, and by the way Freedomlover, in case you forgot, logic can always be refuted and never has an absolute proof. :neutral:

Mike

Self edited before it was posted since I started to say what I really think of all this.

[KMacT]

I apologize.

Accepted. Kevin

[Colin]

Not sure I understand any of this. The stats are false so the argument doesn't follow. If you are suggesting that the testing be slanted to the lowest common denominator, I don't think that's what Shay is suggesting. Remove the artificial standards, and keep the critical ones, is what makes it fair.

I was actually just taking the piss.

[Freedomlover]

I see that I have managed to irritate a portion of the membership. That wasn't, of course, my goal. It seems that for some people firm opinions, firmly stated, only cause heartburn. I suppose that is a natural consequence of posting in a forum where one, and apparently only one, thing is held in common. I have never had it as a goal to rub people the wrong way, but I have managed to do that in spite of myself. To those who took it with good nature: thank you. To those who were waiting on any misstatement to pounce: get a life.

My opinions are my opinions. Yours are yours. I suggest that if you do not like mine, then don't bother to reply to a thread I started and have every right to (gently) direct.

In one case I offended, by carelessness, a man I respect. I have apologised to him. I have also offended others by the expression of my views, and for that I offer no apology. My views are what they are. Just as I let pass much that I find offensive I suggest that anyone who doesn't like my opinions (which are as valid as yours) simply ignore my comments.

[Archangel]

I was actually just taking the piss.

oh, that, hate it when I fall for that.

[Archangel]

I see that I have managed to irritate a portion of the membership. That wasn't, of course, my goal. It seems that for some people firm opinions, firmly stated, only cause heartburn. I suppose that is a natural consequence of posting in a forum where one, and apparently only one, thing is held in common. I have never had it as a goal to rub people the wrong way, but I have managed to do that in spite of myself. To those who took it with good nature: thank you. To those who were waiting on any misstatement to pounce: get a life.

My opinions are my opinions. Yours are yours. I suggest that if you do not like mine, then don't bother to reply to a thread I started and have every right to (gently) direct.

In one case I offended, by carelessness, a man I respect. I have apologised to him. I have also offended others by the expression of my views, and for that I offer no apology. My views are what they are. Just as I let pass much that I find offensive I suggest that anyone who doesn't like my opinions (which are as valid as yours) simply ignore my comments.

That was a sad little note.
I'm a bit confused here because you invited the discussion and asked for the comments about an observation. Several people shared their opinions. The conversation moved to some core issues. This would be called a dialogue.

Unless your getting nastygrams, I don't think anybody has been terribly offended. You should not be getting nastygrams.

Myself, I'm not upset or offfended. Nobody has got close to my buttons on this thread. I am used to really extreme emotions in this area and, thankfully, very well trained in it. Again, nobody here was reacting beyond norms, all in all, a very well behaved bunch of barbarians.

I'm not sure you get to redirect threads once they're set loose in cyber-space but we can try. However, you did ask a gender relations question and the thread will likely keep returning to this point.

I certainly don't expect people to suddenly get an epiphany because of my words. Although, it would be nice if they did. There's actually been a few very rewarding times when it has happened. The best I hope for is that the information I pass on is considered intelligently. I've said it before, I don't see these things as politically correct, to me they are correct. It would be terrific if people would accept it as such. Politically correct is the point I have to raise during the seminars, in my workplace, this is the law and the standard for employment: accept this teaching or be unemployed. That works and makes for an okay workplace but it's a better place when people really see it and accept it.

okay, kilt-lifting, discuss.

[Archangel]

Discrimination against turtles?! Shame!

Missed this one earlier but you should know how discriminition laws work in Canada. The turtle is in my back yard in Canada.

No discrimination because the turtle is not "covered under any prohibited ground". While it has dug a little hollow to lay in, it doesn't belong to any group recognized by discriminition law.

It is uninvited into my backyard and there is no rent exchange. We are not in a landlord/tenant relationship which is one of the "areas" the laws cover. Even if I condone its presence, it is not protected by discriminition laws. However, I'm not sure how long it can stay before a relationship can be assumed and if my pleasure of having it there can be construed as exploitive. For that I would need legal advice. I have to be in an authority position to discriminate (harassment is behaviour based), I acknowledge no authority over this turtle. It may come and go as it pleases. I would also seek legal advice here as, I suppose, one could argue that condoning is accepting.

But, more importantly, it has settled beside the thistle and so can claim its protection from that "flower of Scotland." I have a meadow kind of backyard. It is also a turtle which is the totem animal of my friends' tribe and for that it will get protection. The cat has adopted it and for that it will get protection. And St. Francis is one of my mentors, and for that the turtle is well protected. Therefore, the turtle doesn't need discriminition laws because it is protected by other laws.

However, if you would like to start a campaign to have this turtle, or any turtle, get the opportunity to become a firefighter, I think you have to talk to the person that first suggested it, or PETA....which will probably put this thread fully sideways.

[Freedomlover]

That was a sad little note.
I'm a bit confused here because you invited the discussion and asked for the comments about an observation. Several people shared their opinions. The conversation moved to some core issues. This would be called a dialogue.

Unless your getting nastygrams, I don't think anybody has been terribly offended. You should not be getting nastygrams.

More than several. And a "sad little note"? Man, I don't see that at all. It was a statement of what the view is from here. 90% of respondents have contributed to the discussion. 10% chose to take offence. I call that a success.

Myself, I'm not upset or offfended. Nobody has got close to my buttons on this thread. I am used to really extreme emotions in this area and, thankfully, very well trained in it. Again, nobody here was reacting beyond norms, all in all, a very well behaved bunch of barbarians.

All things considered: yes.

I'm not sure you get to redirect threads once they're set loose in cyber-space but we can try. However, you did ask a gender relations question and the thread will likely keep returning to this point.

Yes. I am guilty of not defining the topic more clearly. My apologies to all.

I certainly don't expect people to suddenly get an epiphany because of my words. Although, it would be nice if they did. There's actually been a few very rewarding times when it has happened. The best I hope for is that the information I pass on is considered intelligently. I've said it before, I don't see these things as politically correct, to me they are correct. It would be terrific if people would accept it as such. Politically correct is the point I have to raise during the seminars, in my workplace, this is the law and the standard for employment: accept this teaching or be unemployed. That works and makes for an okay workplace but it's a better place when people really see it and accept it.

okay, kilt-lifting, discuss.

Outstanding! I wish I could cut to the heart of the matter as well as you do.

[Shay]

Alright, I'm sorry it got too heated, I was expressing a couple strong opinions myself.

Anyway- I asked a couple of gal pals what should be the 'penalty' for lifting a man's kilt, and at least two of them asked, "Can't men all fart on demand?"

Which is crude, but cracked me up no end.

Obviously, not everyone can fart on demand, but something as bad as all that should be met with more than a whiff of disapproval.

[Dreadbelly]

Alright, I'm sorry it got too heated, I was expressing a couple strong opinions myself.

Anyway- I asked a couple of gal pals what should be the 'penalty' for lifting a man's kilt, and at least two of them asked, "Can't men all fart on demand?"

Which is crude, but cracked me up no end.

Obviously, not everyone can fart on demand, but something as bad as all that should be met with more than a whiff of disapproval, to bring it back.

I, I have no comment.