Hunting fly plaid with standard kilt?

[unixken]

It is permitted only if the tartan is an Ancient Modern Hunting type.

And only if it's Ancient Modern Hunting MacOnion... not "MacOnion Ancient Modern Hunting."


:: shh... I'm hiding from the grammar nazis ::

[Jock Scot]

It is permitted only if the tartan is an Ancient Modern Hunting type.

Well no, as long as the tartans belong to the same Clan then no "harm" should be done. Clan Donald, for example, have many tartans that are not even similar in pattern, never mind the hue. There is a picture that appears here on occassion, where the various Chiefs and Captains of Clan Donald are stood together and if my memory serves there is at least one plaid that differs completely from the owners kilt tartan. Another example would be the late Sir Donald Cameron of Lochiel who's plaid tartan(Cameron) and hue often differed from the tartan( another Cameron tartan) and hue of his kilt. Not usual for sure and does look a tad strange to our modern day compartmentalised and pigeon holed world, but not at all "wrong".

[figheadair]

I think that there's possibly a need to clarify what we mean by Fly Plaid. To my mind there is a difference between the traditional shoulder plaid such as those worn by the Atholl Highlanders, Chiefs at Highland Games etc and Fly Plaids which are a sewn garment with straps to attach it to the waist giving the impression of a continuation of the kilt. The former can clearly be of a different tartan, the latter not unless of course one whats to look very weird.

[Jock Scot]

Good point Peter!Thank you.

I am sorry if I, probably have in fact, have confused anyone with my posts on this thread. Peter's post above puts the whole subject into a clear light and should be regarded correct in all aspects. My apologies to all.

Perhaps some clever soul could post a picture of all three types so that we(me!) could all see the differences?

[David Thorpe]

...Fly Plaids which are a sewn garment with straps to attach it to the waist giving the impression of a continuation of the kilt.

Interesting. I had thought that this item was referred to as a belted or evening plaid and that a "fly plaid" was simply a fringed rectangle of tartan pinned at a corner at the shoulder. I was also given to understand that the fly plaid was traditionally only worn at very formal and special occasions, i.e. by a groom at his wedding or a graduate at his commencement ceremony.

[Sir Didymous]

Interesting. I had thought that this item was referred to as a belted or evening plaid and that a "fly plaid" was simply a fringed rectangle of tartan pinned at a corner at the shoulder. I was also given to understand that the fly plaid was traditionally only worn at very formal and special occasions, i.e. by a groom at his wedding or a graduate at his commencement ceremony.

I was under the same assumption. That what was in this thread http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...y-plaid-26123/ was considered a fly plaid.

This thread talks of the day/laird's/shepherd's plaid: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...s-plaid-59143/ Which I understand isn't even required to be tartan at all (I know mine isn't).
But that isn't to be confused with the piper's/long plaid: http://www.tartansauthority.com/high...ern/flyplaids/ which are being referenced in a few of the posts above.
And then we have the half-belted plaid: http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/...ted_plaid.html Which is what I'm considering for part of a new kit.

But, how all of this relates to the original question is this: I read that you should never mix tartans; it is considered to be in poor taste. Now it has been said on here that color pallet variations of the tartan for a given clan may be worn at the same time without giving offence. Eg: I could wear a bias cut tartan waist coat in the Ferguson weathered, and a kilt and tie in Ferguson ancient with a brown jacket. This is new information to me, but it makes sense. (Though I don't know just how sensible that combination would look from the fashion perspective.) However in the case of all plaids save those in the piper's and day families, I would think it would be considered off to have them of non-matching tartan. As it has been my understanding that the fly and half-belted plaids are considered descendants of the feileadh-mor, and thus should be of the same tartan as the kilt. Now my question is regarding the different tartans for the same clan. Could I say wear a Ferguson modern kilt with a Ferguson dress fly plaid for my college graduation? (Not that I want to, I don't care for the dress tartan.) Or wear a kilt in the Ferguson the Astronomer, and flashes in Ferguson modern?

[MacLowlife]

Sir D, I believe the general rule is not to mix tartans from different clans- that it is otherwise OK to mix hunting and dress setts, for example, or different color ways- ancient, modern, weathered, etc. from the same clan. Or even two garments of the same tartan in no-longer matching dye lots. The point is a rarefied one, but it assumes that others will know what clan tartans you are wearing and will understand that they all come from the same family. By contrast, two tartans that "match" in the sense of having the same colors, or colors that harmonize, but belong to different clans, these should not be worn together.

Where we run into the greatest confusion is the possibility of wearing a couple of universal tartans together or a couple of fashion tartans. While this clearly does not violate the "One clan at a time" rule, I think most people would give it a miss, just to be on the safe side. Therefore, no district and spirit or pride or honour or flower if you are also wearing something else.

[MacGumerait]

Perhaps this will help .

Fly Plaid




Chief's Plaid




Piper's Plaid ( also known as a full belted plaid )





I do not claim to be an expert on " Plaids " but I think these are the three versions being discussed in regards to modern terminology .

Of course this doesn't answer the question of whether or not to mix variations of the same tartan ( i.e. modern , ancient , weathered , etc. ) as I will leave that to those more learned than myself , just trying to offer some illustrations .

Hope this helps , Cheers Mike

[Jock Scot]

Well, your second picture of the late Sir Donald Cameron of Lochiel shows that he had no problem with mixing his own Clan tartans!

As many of you probably know I wear MacLeod of Harris tartan and "our" dress tartan is more commonly known as MacLeod of Lewis(loud MacLeod). I used to wear my grandfather's dress kilt and dress tartan(cut on the bias) waistcoat on occassion to assorted Dress do's until, frankly, the kilt became too decrepit to go on. Then I used to wear my usual MacLeod of Harris kilt AND the yellow dress MacLeod waistcoat and even though I say it myself, it looked pretty sharp!

The point is that many of us were------are still------- doing the same, with our many and various tartans. I am not sure that we took that much notice and we assumed that the mixtures of assorted Clan tartans were correct!It was just not an issue that was/is discussed. I cannot ever recall seeing tartans of different Clans being worn at the same time and it was, I suppose, a combination of knowing the "form" (which we learnt from the cradle), thrift and trust.

Now in the long term kilt world that I live in things wear out, so I could easily(indeed I really could) be wearing a brand new kilt and a 100 year old day(Lairds) plaid and no way are they going to match in hue, or possibly sett, and maybe it could be a completely different MacLeod tartan altogether and its no big deal to me, or for many of us over here.

To you chaps new to the kilt scene it makes sense to buy matching tartan kilt, waistcoat, plaid, etc. right from the start, its perfectly sensible and logical as it was probably for my ancestors all those years ago. So looking into your futures, who knows, your grand children may decide that Great Grandpa's kilt is snookered, but why throw away a perfectly good waistcoat---it does after all belong to the same Clan even if it does not quite match my new super dooper kilt?

Does this imperfect "matching" of tartans of the same Clan now make sense to you?

[Kilted Cole]

I can sort of get this...I think the only time "I" would do it is if I were to be wearing the "lairds" plaid....you know the big heap of blanket over your shoulder that is all folded up....I'll load up a pic of what I'm talking about. I should add, I've also heard it called a day plaid.




Notice in the last pic of the Chiefs of Clan Donald.....His plaid doesn't even match his kilt....(Boom goes my mind) Of course...it also might be the camera mucking about with the tartan as well.

But, I"m not opposed to mixing an matching of tartans and clothing....I have a book on Jacobite era clothing and it shows not just mixing an matching of the same tartan in different shades....but, kilt is one tartan and vest another....with the argyle hose way out in left field. But thats just the pictures that I saw...... but to quote the Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, "The Highland dress is essentially a ‘free' dress - that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."