Underkilt

[Colin]

Back to the subject of the Underkilt: As indicated by the number of orders placed this morning as a result of this thread, there seems to be good interest in a men's garment that insulates the wearer and kilt. I sincerely thank you all who have placed orders and I will be eagerly awaiting your review.

-- Dave

But did any of those orders come as a result of the posting on this site, or were they the result of the posting at Tom's? The feedback didn't seem to positive here.

[JDEZ]

But did any of those orders come as a result of the posting on this site, or were they the result of the posting at Tom's? The feedback didn't seem to positive here.

From this site according to today's e-mails.

-- Dave

[highlander_Daz]

I think its a matter of discription here theres a firm in Scotland that makes "alternative" kilts and calls them 21st century Kilts I think if you prefix the word Kilt or use some kind of alternative description then I dont think thats a big deal. I think it would be marketing disater to start a firm selling "mens skirts" that would be a very "specialised" market. much like a solar powered torch (flashlight?) .

It takes all kinds and im sure many people would be thrilled to wear a slip of one of those "kilts" whatever turns your crank!

[bubba]

Dave, in spite of the fact that your products aren't for me I do wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. I'm sure you'll find a market.

[Iolaus]

As a small apparel manufacturer, we are exploring new niche markets. We in no-way want to deceive people. Our products are unique and we struggle frequently with how to best describe some of them. The most difficult battle has been with our conservative backers who initially said "pants are for men skirts (and kilts) are for girls". The apparel industry and consumer markets are very entrenched into certain ways of thinking. This is very evident as we found that most wives won't generally let their husbands buy something called a skirt. Since "MUG" didn't work, we looked at trying to introduce a new term: "Klug" (Kilt-Like Un-bifurcated Garment), "Skilt", "Kilet", "M-skirt", "one-legged short", etc.
-- Dave

You've jumped right into the middle of an old war, and taken sides.

Look, just about every garment that has successfully used the term "Kilt" in its name has had at least a passing nod toward tradition; they've had a high number of pleats across the back and the look of an overlapping apron in the front. Your products have neither, with the exception of your Neo Highland MP3 Kilt, which, while it does have some pleats, lacks any sembelance of an apron and actually has the appearance of a court jester's outfit.

As for your "Underkilt", you might get more acceptance if you provided it in darker colors (read "black") and enough fabric to allow the legs to spread. A white "underskirt" just screams "slip" and any kind of manouver that substantially parts the knees, like kneeling, is going to result in the slip riding up.

...and Daz, TFCK's kilts still have those basic characteristics, even their Full Length Kilt.

[highlander_Daz]

yeh ive been in TFCKs shop and they do some cool stuff, however Im a bit of a stick in the mud and like my Tartan kilts, why try and reinvent the wheel !!!

[MacConnachie]

I am quite amused by how the dividing line that seems to have been drawn between what's a skirt and what's a kilt is getting to be a broader and broader swath, and how certain of us jump into the fray in various parts of that broad band when it comes to discussions of various types of kilt-like garments.

I wear "traditional" highland kilts; all wool, with one exception (a cotton theatrical version). THOSE vary, from great kilt to philabegs of various configurations (pleating), yardage and wool weights; simply what I prefer. Although I doubt that I would pony up the money for a UK (I don't like the way they look, or how they hang or swing), I don't have a problem with UKs and similar garments, even when someone shows up at a games or similar event wearing them. One of my dearest friends in the world is an Irish-American professor at a small Catholic college, and his one and only kilt is a UK. He looks great in it at our annual Burns' Nichts, reading Tam O' Shanter. There's not a person in this town who would say he wasn't wearing a kilt, and if ever there were such a person, and they insisted on such a position, they'd have a troop of rather large, annoyed Scottish Americans dressed in traditional highland kilts lining up to administer a goodly portion of the Glasgow "kiss" to such an eedjit .

My experience with what I will characterize as "carpet burn in the nether region" came at my considerable expense during a Highland games in early August several years ago, when I was wearing a relatively new "tank." Under my kilt, I always wear "what Reggie wears," if you all take my meaning. After the relative embarassment, discomfort and distraction due to the friction burn, mostly during massed bands and much-shortened marching steps, I resolved to do something to avoid that happening ever again. (Perhaps I'll resort now to the use a bit of Astroglide, instead?) I have taken to pinning a many-times-washed large cotton bandana to the lining of the inner apron of that kilt when I know I'm going to be wearing it all day in the heat of summer. I've also heard of certain gentlemen attaching a small real chamois skin in the same manner to the lining of the inner apron, allowing the chamois to hang down freely at its lower margins. Such practice neither inhibits "the lads" nor any movement while walking or standing, and actually adds another bit of material for modesty's sake while sitting.

Would I ever wear an underkilt or "utilislip"? I doubt it, but then one never really knows to what extent one will go for comfort. A pertinent question here, I'd suggest, is "Why the f#%* would anyone else but me give a f#%* or anything further about the specifics of what I (don't) wear?"

[JDEZ]

I think its a matter of discription here theres a firm in Scotland that makes "alternative" kilts and calls them 21st century Kilts I think if you prefix the word Kilt or use some kind of alternative description then I dont think thats a big deal. I think it would be marketing disater to start a firm selling "mens skirts" that would be a very "specialised" market. much like a solar powered torch (flashlight?) ...!

Maybe the term "Mock-Kilt" could be used to define non-kilt men's garments that have a somewhat similar silhouette as a kilt? That would mean that anything that does not conform to the traditional configuration of a Kilt, but looks kind of like a kilt from a distance could be a "Mock-Kilt". Maybe such a term as this (or similar) could used to satisfy the needs of manufacturers making alternative men's skirt products without encroaching too much on Scottish heritage. I do agree that the image and definition of a kilt should remain what it is. Manufacturers just can't broadly sell something called a men's skirt in today's market. - Just looking for a solution to what looks to be an old problem. - I appreciate everyone's input on this issue, as I am new to the men's apparel industry.

-- Dave

[JDEZ]

...As for your "Underkilt", you might get more acceptance if you provided it in darker colors (read "black") and enough fabric to allow the legs to spread. A white "underskirt" just screams "slip" and any kind of manouver that substantially parts the knees, like kneeling, is going to result in the slip riding up....

I believe that the taper is adequate enough to prevent the problem you mention with it riding up. (it is tapered more than a typical slip). However, we went back and forth on how much extra fabric would be preferred. It's still an open issue. As for color, if we have enough demand, we will make it available in black. We also went back and forth on the fabric. Should it be cotton (heavy T-shirt weight), or a lighter stretch rayon? (We opted for the cotton because it seemed that it would wear better).

-- Dave

[Rigged]

Mock-kilt works for me. Too bad we don't know the name of garments worn by men in ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt. They wore skirt-like garments.

I wonder what they were called.

The J'Dez garments look more like that style. Short, flowing, lighter materials. To me, that's the image they envoke.