1796 Gordon box pleat kilt

[Rod Roy]

Hello there,

A while back, I was inspired by a nice find, a kilt I purchased from a lad in Canada, and last year I finally designed a tartan for my family, the Heil Family Tartan. Currently, I´m working on the details for the tartan, such as the size of the sett for the weaving, a herringbone selvedge etc.


Kilt from Canada
42nd Tartan in real "weathered" colours



Heil Family Tartan




Colour Palette



Certainly, I want a kilt in my personal tartan. I love old box pleat kilts. And I like deep pleats. A very nice one is the 1796 Gordon box pleat kilt, as described in Bob Martin´s book "All About Your Kilt". -- Unfortunately, I don´t own that book (currently not available), and I only know the photo of the 1796 Gordon kilt. But the photo does not tell all the things I´d like to learn about this kilt.

Now I hope that someone in this forum can tell me more and, hopefully, share some detail photos of the pleats. I wonder what style the box pleats are. Further, I´d like to know the width and depth of the pleats. And I would need an advice if that style would look good with pleats that are wider than the ones in the photo of the kilt.


1796 Gordon Kilt




I look forward to your replies, gentlemen.
Thank you in advance.


Yours Aye,
Rod

[Steve Ashton]

I believe this kilt is indeed box pleated. But very narrow pleats by today's standard.

Box pleats look like this when viewed end on.



You should be able to see that each pleat is exactly 3 layers of fabric thick.

The width will be 1/3 of the width of one Sett.

This means that the depth of each pleat is 1/2 of the width of the outer reveal.

Today's RRD kilt is pleated to what a sometimes called Military box pleats. Basically a knife pleat folded back on itself.

Matt Newsome called this pleating style "Unequal leg box pleats".

To achieve greater depth of the pleats you may need to consider this pleating style.

This is what military box pleats look like end on.

[figheadair]

The kilt has just under 4 yds of cloth (smaller people in those days). Lt Bramwell's c1815 kilt has a similar construction.

[Tobus]

I believe this kilt is indeed box pleated. But very narrow pleats by today's standard.

The first thing that struck me about the 1796 kilt, as well as the 1815 kilt that figheadair posted, is just how small the sett is. Getting a tight box pleat pattern with that smaller sett seems naturally easy, where it would be impossible with a larger sett. I wonder if the transition to "military box pleat" patterns was done specifically to imitate these earlier stantard box-pleated military kilts, out of a sense of frustration in being unable to get those narrow pleats with a larger sett.

[figheadair]

The first thing that struck me about the 1796 kilt, as well as the 1815 kilt that figheadair posted, is just how small the sett is. Getting a tight box pleat pattern with that smaller sett seems naturally easy, where it would be impossible with a larger sett. I wonder if the transition to "military box pleat" patterns was done specifically to imitate these earlier stantard box-pleated military kilts, out of a sense of frustration in being unable to get those narrow pleats with a larger sett.

The 1796 and 1815 kilts both looks to have about the same size sett albeit that the cloth is of different widths - 6 and 8 half setts respectively. I suspect that both were officers' kilts and therefore purchased rather than issues which might have had a bearing on the choice.

The standard (later) issue ORs' tartan had a much bigger sett, less so the officers' cloth. The size ORs' later setting was actually closer to the Wilsons' era plaid setting, itself much larger than these kilt settings.

There is no evidence that the Gordons ever used a box-pleat with the heavier cloth and seem to have switched directly to a knife pleat at some point post-1850.

[Rod Roy]

I´m not an expert, I´m just a passionate kilt wearer, but to my eyes the first photo depicts box pleats of an early 19th century kilt. What I´m after is a late 18th century style box pleat kilt with deep pleats. -- I am hoping that the pleats of the 1796 kilt are the style (or similar) as shown in the picture below.

[The Wizard of BC]

What you have shown in this photo, which is from Matt Newsome, is what he calls "uneven leg box pleats" or what are sometimes called 'military box pleats'.

If I can comment, kilts pleated like this are a royal pain in the butt to make and to maintain. If, for some reason, you ever need to re-press one of these, the additional folds mean hours and hours of measuring and basting before you press.

According the Matt this pleating style developed as a way to increase the amount of fabric used in the kilt in an effort to increase the swish. A true box pleated kilt is often called "A 4 yard kilt" as the pleats have but three layers of fabric. A knife pleated kilt is often called "An 8 yard kilt".

[figheadair]

What you have shown in this photo, which is from Matt Newsome, is what he calls "uneven leg box pleats" or what are sometimes called 'military box pleats'..

And they are what Bob Martin called a 'Box-Knife' pleat I.e. a transitional pleat between the two forms. I love a narrow box-knife pleat on a 5 yard kilt which I find very comfortable and easy to care for.

[Rod Roy]

There seems to be general consensus that the 1796 kilt has plain box pleats. Is it the same style as the box pleats in the photo? Ach, that´s a pity!





To the best of my knowledge, the 1796 Gordon kilt is, apart from the 1790 Macduff kilt, the oldest surviving example of a tailored kilt. Just wondering, is there another 18th century box pleat kilt?

[Rod Roy]

Box-knife pleats on a 5 yard kilt. -- Now that is very interesting. But that´s early 19th century, isn´t it? Do you think it´s still comfortable and easy to care for if the kilt has wide box-knife pleats? Is it that style as shown in the photo, Figheadair?