Can any kilt fiends identify this uniform's age and origin? (Photo heavy.)

**GildedLocks** · 27th July 13, 11:11 AM

Hi XMarks, I've got some questions I'm hoping someone here can answer; if there's a more appropriate resource, let me know. I collected vintage clothing all throughout high school and I'm getting ready to clean out my closet and sell about half my collection on eBay. Among the things I'm trying to sell is a set of womens highland clothing which I really know nothing about; I bought it at an antique shop a few years ago and it includes a velvet double breasted jacket, a beautiful kilt, a plaid, a jabot, a cap and a pair of wool socks. There are not tags or inscriptions in it anywhere and it's made in strange proportions, so I'm assuming it was bespoke.

My conundrum is that I have no idea how old it is, where it's from, what exactly it was worn for or whether it has any worth. Y'all seem like the experts so I'm bringing my photos here. Click to enlarge.

The jacket is the most damaged item; the shop i bought it from left it near a sunny window, so sadly its green color is very faded, it's noticeable when the front panel is lifted away from the inner one. Horsehair lining's protruding a little at one panel's corner. There's also a lot of sweat damage in the lining. I wonder if it was used as a dance costume? I believe the buttons are pewter, very ornate— I can't make out the inscription on them. It's been made in an extremely long proportion and has an incredibly tiny waist; it would probably fit Kate Moss quite well.

jacket1.jpg
damage.jpg

High contrast detail of one button:
button.jpg

The kilt is gorgeous— it's why I had bought the uniform. A little sweat damage inside but nothing else dubious.

kilt.jpg

Here it is with The Thing. I know this is supposed to be slung over the shoulder, but I couldn't get it to look normal on my mannequin.

kilt2.jpg
plaid.jpg

And finally the cap, tiny socks and jabot. Socks are actually in great condition, hat's a bit mashed and jabot's sweat-stained.

cap.jpg
socks.jpg
jabot.jpg

What is the verdict? Is this a cool antique or just an exceptionally gross, sweaty contemporary item? What would you price this at if you were selling it?

**Pipersson** · 27th July 13, 01:13 PM

Is it a uniform?
Seems to be a Montrose Doublet to me...

Tom

**artificer** · 27th July 13, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Pipersson

Is it a uniform?
Seems to be a Montroe Doublet to me...

Tom

It's cut as a Montrose, but it opens from the left rather than the right, as if it was made for a woman (or, I suppose, a chap who's had his left hand badly damaged).

The kilt/skirt is fringed on the right like a man's kilt, but is VERY long, even for the high rise of a military kilt. And I don't know if I've ever seen a plaid sewn into a separate waistband/belt before.

It's definitely not a military uniform, but might be either some dancer's kit or even an odd fancy-dress costume (although it looks too well made for that).

I don't think I've ever seen a woman wear a jabot, either.

I hope someone with more experience comes along, I'm fascinated to see what this truly is.

ith:

**RockyR** · 27th July 13, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by artificer

It's cut as a Montrose, but it opens from the left rather than the right, as if it was made for a woman (or, I suppose, a chap who's had his left hand badly damaged).

The kilt/skirt is fringed on the right like a man's kilt, but is VERY long, even for the high rise of a military kilt. And I don't know if I've ever seen a plaid sewn into a separate waistband/belt before.

It's definitely not a military uniform, but might be either some dancer's kit or even an odd fancy-dress costume (although it looks too well made for that).

I don't think I've ever seen a woman wear a jabot, either.

I hope someone with more experience comes along, I'm fascinated to see what this truly is.

ith:

Agreed with most of what Artificer said.

The plaid is a BELTED plaid (aka a Drummers Plaid), typically used by drummers in pipe bands.

The kilt DOES seem a bit long. Also, the proportions (waist / hip ratio) seem to be pretty extreme based on the shaping of the apron, so I would guess it was made for a woman, if I had to take a guess based on the photos.

**artificer** · 27th July 13, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by RockyR

Agreed with most of what Artificer said.

The plaid is a BELTED plaid (aka a Drummers Plaid), typically used by drummers in pipe bands.

The kilt DOES seem a bit long. Also, the proportions (waist / hip ratio) seem to be pretty extreme based on the shaping of the apron, so I would guess it was made for a woman, if I had to take a guess based on the photos.

Y'see, I've been here over three years and I learn something new every day. I love this place.

ith:

**Hopper250** · 27th July 13, 02:12 PM

Well, if it is a woman's kilt it may have been cut like a man's kilt. I found this image, which is far to large to do more than link to.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7Se7iswAan...regon_pipe.jpg

On this blog, http://incakolanews.blogspot.com/201...9_archive.html where there is a quote to go with the picture. They picture is c.1965 of the Clan McClay Pipe Band in Portland, OR. The photo looks like it has been flipped as every member of the band is carrying their pipes in their right arms. And their kilt pins are on the left side.

Unfortunately it doesn't say who the woman in front is or her position, however if her position was common it could have been from another woman doing the same. The kilt in the picture is cut exactly the same as all the men's kilts.

**bluebonnet** · 28th July 13, 12:44 AM

This outfit also looks like the dance outfits worn by women in the mid 60s - early 70s. I think I was about 6 or 7 and my parents had a Montrose Jacket (with a Jabot) made up for me (along with the same tartan - ancient hunting Fraser). The buttons are similar to the ones I had on my dance jackets. My first kilt outfit for dancing was a Royal Stewart Kilt and plaid, Argyll jacket and a feathered balmoral.

**WillowEstate** · 28th July 13, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hopper250

Well, if it is a woman's kilt it may have been cut like a man's kilt. I found this image, which is far to large to do more than link to.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7Se7iswAan...regon_pipe.jpg

picture is c.1965 of the Clan McClay Pipe Band in Portland, OR. The photo looks like it has been flipped as every member of the band is carrying their pipes in their right arms. And their kilt pins are on the left side.

I flipped over the picture and reduced its size to more reasonable proportions - does that look better? The woman does seem to be wearing a regular man's kilt, as you say, not the same proportions as the OP's.

Flipped.jpg

As to the OP's original pictures, Bluebonnet's suggestion seems very reasonable, except that the kilt looks a bit long for dancing. What are the actual measurements, waist, length, sleeve length on the jacket and maybe sock size? The proportions still look rather odd, though.

I'm wondering if it might be an outfit made for a movie of some sort - the anomalies could be put down to "artistic license"?

**bluebonnet** · 28th July 13, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by WillowEstate

I flipped over the picture and reduced its size to more reasonable proportions - does that look better? The woman does seem to be wearing a regular man's kilt, as you say, not the same proportions as the OP's.

Flipped.jpg

As to the OP's original pictures, Bluebonnet's suggestion seems very reasonable, except that the kilt looks a bit long for dancing. What are the actual measurements, waist, length, sleeve length on the jacket and maybe sock size? The proportions still look rather odd, though.

I'm wondering if it might be an outfit made for a movie of some sort - the anomalies could be put down to "artistic license"?

If it is a dance kilt, it was probably made to have a higher rise so that it would fit for a longer time and not show the blouse when the dancer's arms are raised above their head or pulled out when dancing a reel. Wee girls tend grow up not out - waist and hips are pretty much remain the same from 8-12 yo - not much changes in the fell. They do tend to grow up until they are past their puberty. Many of my dancing kilts had it tucked under my armpits and held up with a set of braces to allow for growth - just drop the kilt down. (the trend back then was also to sew an undershirt onto the kilt to keep it in place - could be removed easily if the girl grew.)

Just have a look at any of the old Scottish Board books on dancing dress regs and you'll see where this outfit fit in and the time era.