Formal Evening Question

[Jessica]

Hi everybody!

I am new here and although I have just posted an introduction on the Newbie board I realise that many of you may not have seen it, so for anyone who hasn't, I am Jessica. My husband Christopher and I live in Ontario, Canada. We have a formal evening event to attend soon and we're looking at the possibility of traditional Scottish dress for Chris, who has a lot of Scottish blood but has never worn the traditional dress before.

The event we'll be attending is a Legion event, it's a gala evening (dinner, dancing, and more) in support of the Poppy Fund to mark the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge. The information states that dress is "formal with medals," though the medal part doesn't apply for us. Initially Chris saw this as a great excuse to buy his first kilt, but attending this gala is sort of a last minute plan (it's in a few weeks) and after eventually getting a hold of the kiltmaker who's done my brothers' kilts in the past it was decided that, due mostly to time constraints, it might be better to hold off on buying one right now. So, we've turned our attention to rental package options for the time being.

Personally, my favourite formal look for kilts is the Montrose doublet with a lace jabot, but all the formal rental packages we've been able to find come with the Prince Charlie coatee, vest, and black bow tie. Chris would also prefer the jabot because he has a thing against bow ties (not bow ties in general, he just doesn't want to wear one himself if avoidable). I know it's not the normal way of doing things, but I have been trying to determine whether or not it's acceptable to wear the jabot with the PC (or anything other than a bow tie with it, for that matter) and I've been finding a lot of contradictory information out there. Some things say only the bow tie with the PC, period; some things say that a Windsor tie or a ruched tie would be okay too; some things say that the PC was initially meant for either the bow tie or the jabot; some say the jabot is strictly for doublets... it goes on! I know James Bond wore the jabot with what looks to me like a PC, and I'm sure that wins points with Chris, but... you know... Bond is fictional.

Because of the nature of the event, we're concerned about showing respect with proper attire... but would also like to consider husband's personal comfort and taste in so far as it's possible.

Any advice? Thanks in advance!

[davidlpope]

Hi everybody!

I am new here and although I have just posted an introduction on the Newbie board I realise that many of you may not have seen it, so for anyone who hasn't, I am Jessica. My husband Christopher and I live in Ontario, Canada. We have a formal evening event to attend soon and we're looking at the possibility of traditional Scottish dress for Chris, who has a lot of Scottish blood but has never worn the traditional dress before.

The event we'll be attending is a Legion event, it's a gala evening (dinner, dancing, and more) in support of the Poppy Fund to mark the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge. The information states that dress is "formal with medals," though the medal part doesn't apply for us. Initially Chris saw this as a great excuse to buy his first kilt, but attending this gala is sort of a last minute plan (it's in a few weeks) and after eventually getting a hold of the kiltmaker who's done my brothers' kilts in the past it was decided that, due mostly to time constraints, it might be better to hold off on buying one right now. So, we've turned our attention to rental package options for the time being.

Personally, my favourite formal look for kilts is the Montrose doublet with a lace jabot, but all the formal rental packages we've been able to find come with the Prince Charlie coatee, vest, and black bow tie. Chris would also prefer the jabot because he has a thing against bow ties (not bow ties in general, he just doesn't want to wear one himself if avoidable). I know it's not the normal way of doing things, but I have been trying to determine whether or not it's acceptable to wear the jabot with the PC (or anything other than a bow tie with it, for that matter) and I've been finding a lot of contradictory information out there. Some things say only the bow tie with the PC, period; some things say that a Windsor tie or a ruched tie would be okay too; some things say that the PC was initially meant for either the bow tie or the jabot; some say the jabot is strictly for doublets... it goes on! I know James Bond wore the jabot with what looks to me like a PC, and I'm sure that wins points with Chris, but... you know... Bond is fictional.

Because of the nature of the event, we're concerned about showing respect with proper attire... but would also like to consider husband's personal comfort and taste in so far as it's possible.

Any advice? Thanks in advance!

If you're going with a Prince Charlie then wear a bowtie and waistcoat. Avoid white hose, fly plaids, and ghillie brogues and it won't stand out as a rental. A pair of black/red or red/green diced hose would be a huge plus.

Jabots look out of place when coupled with a white shirtfront. They're better paired with a Montrose or Sheriffmuir, where the doublet or high gorge waistcoat provides contrast. A regular tie is too casual to be paired with a PC. The ruche tie is simply an abomination. Avoid it at all costs.

I'm not crazy about the sporran, but this is what you're shooting for with a rental:


Not this:

[Taskr]

David's THIS photo is a very good guide. Montrose or Sherf are too formal for that event, IMO. PC is fine. Black Barrethea and vest would be good also. Available in shop in TO and very flexible for future wear. Ruched tie..uugghh. If avoiding a bow tie, then a plain black tie with a standard knot. Since he will be getting a kilt, them may as well buy hose rather than rent. Can choose your colour..subdued or muted, such as mentioned by david. Not too much a red tone with maroon/claret, as I learned. They just didn't look right so I went with black. Plain flashes look better than tartan.

[Father Bill]

Jessica, a word of caution: Here in Ontario where you and I live, the word "formal" is sometimes abused to mean anything from white tie down to actually wearing a suit and tie.

I strongly advise that you contact the organizers and get a clear picture of what others have worn to similar events in the past and then match to that level of formality.

To me, "formal" means white tie and tails, and semi-formal means dinner-jacket and black tie. I'm slowly learning how to apply these conventions to highland wear, but I've discovered that the old definitions no longer apply and people have let the words wander and be gerrymandered to have next to no meaning whatever, so only the hosts know for sure what they want.

[McMurdo]

First off, from Toronto, secondly, if you are going to go to a formal evening I think it is important to follow the accepted rules for the evening. I will also suggest that you take a look at the 1 kilt 10 looks thread that Panache and I put together some years ago.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-attire-46888/

If I were renting I would wear the Prince Charlie with the bow tie regardless of how I felt about it, it just looks better than any of the options available. Here is a photo from the last black tie dinner I attended, while I could have worn the Montrose I opted for a PC albeit in a different colour than black. I think everyone was turned out perfectly while we each brought our own style to the outfits we all held to the spirit of the rules of black tie highland wear.

[Lady Grey]

Would something like a Continental Tie be acceptable?
http://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Glossary1.htm

Acceptable to Husband & acceptable to the dashing gentlemen of Xmarks in regards to formal wear?

[Father Bill]

Would something like a Continental Tie be acceptable?
http://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Glossary1.htm

Acceptable to Husband & acceptable to the dashing gentlemen of Xmarks in regards to formal wear?

Personal preference is against these. To me, they fall under the category of "Gee, look what we designed to prove that we can do something different from what has always been done" rather than saying yes, this has evolved naturally out of traditional styles.

Having said that, they've become more common in recent decades and a lot of people like them even if they are bereft of meaning to me.

[Walkman]

Jessica, a word of caution: Here in Ontario where you and I live, the word "formal" is sometimes abused to mean anything from white tie down to actually wearing a suit and tie.

I strongly advise that you contact the organizers and get a clear picture of what others have worn to similar events in the past and then match to that level of formality.

To me, "formal" means white tie and tails, and semi-formal means dinner-jacket and black tie. I'm slowly learning how to apply these conventions to highland wear, but I've discovered that the old definitions no longer apply and people have let the words wander and be gerrymandered to have next to no meaning whatever, so only the hosts know for sure what they want.

I've attended my parish father/daughter dance for the last six years with my youngest daughter. The mode of dress has always been semi-formal, i.e., dark suits for the dads and party dresses for the girls. This year's invitation stated that dress was "casual formal", which totally perplexed me. A quick phone call confirmed that dress was what it has always been, but it just confirms your point Fr Bill, the old definitions no longer apply.

[Downunder Kilt]

I got lost when persons started to use semi formal, always been a useless modern day description to my mind.

[Jock Scot]

I got lost when persons started to use semi formal, always been a useless modern day description to to my mind.

Where in heavens name did this useless semi formal nonsense come from? Casual, smart, dress(formal) has worked well for us in the UK and I think in the Commonwealth too.Well it did in Australia some fifty years ago!

Casual= Anything from swim wear to sports jacket and corduroy trousers etc..
Smart= Blazers to lounge/business suits.
Formal= Morning dress(day time) to formal evening wear( black/white tie).

With the addition of common sense the system works well and is simple and easy to understand. I recommend it!

It also helps if you understand the basic differences between Highland Scots kilt attire requirements and Saxon attire too.