I need advice from the rabble a new kilt purchase. Clan tartan, or Family tartan???

[Stan]

Here's my dilemma....

Kilt:
I'm a member of clan Gregor, but my last name isn't Gregor or MacGregor. My family name is a sept of clan Gregor.
My family tartan is Leckie and there are three tartans for Leckie. There's a "weavers colors" which is very similar to MacGregor red and green, and there is a second Leckie "modern" that's very similar to MacGregor black, and red.

As for a clan choice my favorite MacGregor tartan is the black, and red. All of my tartan material choices would be 15 oz. or better, and be woven by DC DAL.


#note
I have traditional kilts in 4 of the MacGregor tartans already. I have kilts in Clan Gregor , (1) 13 oz. red and green, (2) 16 oz. hunting modern, (3) 13 oz.modern tartan (4) 13 oz. Red and black by Hedga.


Diced waist coat: (my error, I was trying to say "Cut on the bias")
One reason that I'm asking is because while I DO have a number of kilts, this purchase would be a 16 oz. (or 15 oz.) special weave that's going to be on the higher end of the price scale, and with this "new kilt" I'm going to have a "diced" waist coat made from the same fabric at the same time. A waistcoat cut in either a 5 button or cut and made in a 3 button for wearing with my PC.

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So, first question is:
Q. Clan tartan or family tartan?


Second question:

Q. Waist coat in a 5 button for evening wear, or 3 button for wear with with (and I' suspect ONLY) with my P.C. that I wear maybe 3 times a year.

Third question:
Q. Would you wear a 5 button waist coat with a PC, or only, and always a 3 button waistcoat?
I see photos of a 5 button waistcoat ( on MacGregor and McDuff web site) being worn with a PC, and I kind of like it.... any thoughts?


Forth question, or really more a survey on this one:

Q. Diced tartan waistcoat or not...??? Ive read a few thoughts from a few of the group on some other threads regarding "diced waistcoats", and I share the opinion (and agree with the thought) that while a diced tartan vest may look great with one tartan, it may not in another. I think a diced waistcoat it DOES with the MacGregor black and red. Your thoughts?

Fifth question:
Should historically relevant tartans trump more modern tartan creations?
I ask this because part of my "consideration" is that the Leckie tartan was only (or shows to be) registered in 1988, (so it really has little historical relevance) while the MacGregor black and red is truly ancient,..(or at least ancient by comparison) and it really does have a historical significances.



So, there you have it.. I'm getting ready to spend a fair amount of money on a premium kilt, and matching vest, and would appreciate your input, and opinions, what ever they may be.

The kilt will be pleated to Set, and I'm suspect that the waist coat will "speak for it's self"......LOL..LOL..


Below are the tartans in question

Tartan #1 Leckie Modern ~~~~~ Tartan #2 Leckie Weavers colors~~~ Tartan #3 MacGregor Red and Black
Leckie__Modern_Colours_Pure_New_Wool_15.jpg Leckie__Weavers_Colours_Pure_New_Wool_13.jpg MacGregor_Rob_Roy_Modern_Colours_Pure_New_Wool_15.jpg

All specially woven by DCDal. and all 15 or 16 oz.

Thanks for your help...

[mookien]

Stan: First and foremost there are no "right" or "wrong" answers to your questions. Ultimately, the answers will depend on how you feel about them. Subject to that proviso, my opinions are as follows:

1. Since you already have 4 MacGregor kilts, I would go with a family tartan, especially if there is one you particularly like and regardless of the creation/registration date.

2. I suggest that you acquire a 3-button waistcoat for your PC and a 5-button waistcoat for more informal wear.

3. I favor a 3-button waistcoat that matches my PC.

4. If by "diced" you mean "cut on the bias" ie the bands and stripes of the waistcoat are at a 45 degree angle from those in the kilt, then I heartily endorse that idea. They look very good. I have such waistcoats for three of my "family" kilts.

5. This is your most subjective question. Historical tartans only "trump" newer tartans, if you have reason to think they do. Quite literally, they only trump them in age. But, if wearing the tartan of a famous historical clan is more important to you (for any reason) than wearing a more modern family tartan, then by all means go for it!

Good luck on your decisions.

John

[davidlpope]

The Leckie tartan bears a strong resemblance to the Lennox tartan. From a distance (and given the rarity of Leckie tartan kilts) I bet it will taken as such. I'm all in favor of custom weaves, but I think I would probably go with the MacGregor Clan tartan in Wilson's of Bannockburn colors with a larger than normal sett. I know this isn't one of your listed options, but it's my best advice. The black and red MacGregor can be had from stock in a heavyweight fabric. I wouldn't go to the trouble of a custom weave for such a simple design.

[Nathan]

I'm still trying to figure out what a diced waistcoat is but here goes:

Wear whichever tartan you like. You are associated with all of them, name and clan so fill your boots.

I wouldn't wear a 5 button waistcoat with a Prince Charlie. I'd get a three button bias cut tartan waistcoat to match a particular kilt and bring my PC when I was being measured for it to ensure the bottom of the waistcoat and the coatee line up correctly.

I have a five button tartan waistcoat and wear it with an Argyll rather than with a PC.

Cheers!

Nathan

[OC Richard]

Since you already have MacGregor kilts, I would go with one of the Leckie tartans.

It's hard to tell from the computer-generated images what those two colour schemes would look like when woven. But, if they haven't been woven yet, correct? so that is all you have to go on? That makes it a very difficult decision. Thing about tartans, and perhaps especially red-and-green tartans, is that you can get a large number of very different appearances due to shifts in the red and the green.

About the vest I would go, personally, with the higher one, because you can wear it equally well with Evening Dress and with Day Dress and on its own without a jacket. Tartan vests are very flexible that way! And you can wear it with any of your other kilts- the vest can be of a different tartan than the kilt if you wish. Personally I don't think it looks bad to wear a higher vest with a Prince Charlie or other Evening jacket.

Here's an example of how different a red/green tartan can look, given somewhat subtle colour shifts. These are two versions of a tartan I've been working on (a variant on MacDonald of the Isles, for my family, Cook/MacCook)

[Stan]

John, thank you for your feed back, and YES, I meant "cut on the bias" for he waist coat. You've been a great help. Thanks.

Stan L.

[Stan]

Natan, my apologies, I should have said "Cut on the Bias" for the waistcoat. I guess at the time of writing I couldn't get kilt hose out of my mind. Thank you for your opinion, and feed back.

[Stan]

OC Richard, thank you for your feed back, and no they haven't been woven, and yes the photos of the tartan are the only thing that I have to go on. Seeing that Leckie is a sept of clan Gregor, I find it interesting that the two Leckie tartans have a large resemblance to the Mac Gregor tartans. I'm of the opinion that they are almost a "derivation" of the MacGregor red and green, and of the MacGregor Red and black.

I hadn't thought of the multi-color aspect of the Leckie red and green Leckie, and thanks for pointing that out. I've read a many of postings, (as with the others too) and I appreciate, and value your opinion. Thank you.

[OC Richard]

Thanks!

Quite possibly they are derived from MacGregor. That's what I did, start with a traditional MacDonald tartan and add a few lines, and switch colours of a couple lines.

So Leckie has a green/red ground with two blue stripes in the red, but what are the two stripes in the green? They look white in one, and I can't tell which colour in the other.

EDIT: I did a quick search online and it looks like yes white lines in the green.

Have you considered the Dalgliesh 'reproduction' colours? They are extremely beautiful and I myself wouldn't hesitate to get Leckie in Reproduction.

[davidlpope]

Thanks!

Quite possibly they are derived from MacGregor. That's what I did, start with a traditional MacDonald tartan and add a few lines, and switch colours of a couple lines.

So Leckie has a green/red ground with two blue stripes in the red, but what are the two stripes in the green? They look white in one, and I can't tell which colour in the other.

I think it's much more likely they were derived from the Lennox tartan. The crimson outerchecks on the green and the two sets of double-stripes give it away. The only other tartans that I know to employ this scarlet/crimson effect are Macnab and the original, correctly-woven Rose tartans.