Jacket Length

[scotchegg]

Wondering about the Regular vs Short jacket cuts when considering a kilt jacket.
I understand with a regular suit jacket that the waist and arms are a little shorter, but with a kilt jacket being the way they are - will the waist really be that much shorter?
I take a 42R in a suit jacket, but always end up having to get the sleeves shortened.

How different are they really?

[McMurdo]

So the thing is that with a kilt jacket you want it to not interfere with the swing of the pleats so you want it no lower than the fell line at the back. For the front you want to be able to access your sporran without the jacket getting in the way. So yes they are different and yes those who have been wearing the kilt any amount of time would be able to tell that something was off in your outfit. I tend to think a Saxon jacket with the kilt looks sloppy like a wee boy playing dress up in his dad's clothes.

[Steve Ashton]

The bottom of a regular suit jacket will end right about the bottom of the buttocks. This is to hide the pucker from the pants legs in the back.
So the bottom of a suit jacket will be longer than the sleeves. About 4" on average.



The bottom of a jacket cut for a kilt will be right about the crest of the buttocks. This is so we don't hide the pleats.
So the bottom of a kilt jacket will be about the same length, or just shorter, than the sleeves.



A kilt jacket will also have a cut-away to go around the sporran.

A bottom of a Prince Charlie coatee will be just below the natural waist. With the tashes in the back the same, or just longer, than the bottom of the Argyle.
(A coatee was a type of tight fitting uniform coat or jacket, which was waist length at the front and had short tails behind.)





This is why, if you wear a Prince Charlie coatee, that you MUST wear your kilt up high at the anatomical waist. So no white shirt is visible between the top of the kilt and the bottom of the coatee.




Like the tuxedo and the cut-away jackets the vest of the Prince Charlie should not be longer than the jacket.

Incorrect



Correct



There is also the old school 'rule' that you do not wear a belt when you wear a vest. This is where braces come in.
This look appears to have started with the Scottish rental (hire) shops. (Along with the horrid Ruche tie which is an ascot tied in a 4-in-hand knot)
(The knob of a cantled sporran should be worn up, just in the notch of the vest. See the 3rd photo above.) (The sporran is not a crotch protector.)







And for reference when ordering jackets - the sizing of a 42 R stock Kilt jacket will be about -

Chest = 42"
Measured loosely over the pectoral muscles.



Waist = 37"
Measured snug at the anatomical waist.



Sleeve length or Crown to Cuff = 24.5"
Measured from 1" higher than the shoulder - to the first knuckle of the thumb.





Depending on how you like the length of your sleeves -
Old School is that when the arms are straight down there should be no shirt cuff showing. (See the 2nd picture above)
But today most jackets show between 1/2" and 3/4" of shirt cuff. (See the 3rd picture above) (we can blame this on Johnny Carson)

I was always taught that the correct length of a sleeve is that, if you hold your arm bent in front of your chest, the cufflinks should just peek out.
Today if you hold your arm bent in front of your chest, the entire shirt cuff shows.

There is also a measurement of the back called "Half-Back".
This is from the spine to where the jacket sleeve seam (the scye) would be and about 8" below the collar.
On a 42 R kilt jacket this will be 9.25"



And the jacket length.
On an Argyle style = 25.75"
On a P/C = 26"

Measured starting just below the collar down to the crest of the hips or buttocks.



A 42 R vest will be about - Argyle = 20.5"
P/C = 18.5"

For a 42 Long the sleeve and full body length will be 1" longer than stock.
For a 42 Short the sleeve and full body length will be 1" shorter than stock.


I hope this helps.

[scotchegg]

Once again, your insight and experience is thorough and appreciated greatly!
Thanks gents.

[Michael J]

I hope this helps.

Aye!

Thank you for the very clear illustrations of tailoring measurements. Now I know how to do it properly, and will know when I'm not doing it properly.

[OC Richard]

This is why, if you wear a Prince Charlie coatee, that you MUST wear your kilt up high at the anatomical waist. So no white shirt is visible between the top of the kilt and the bottom of the coatee.

There is also the old school 'rule' that you do not wear a belt when you wear a vest. This is where braces come in.

Yes indeed! These things can't be said enough. It's so common to see men in Prince Charlies wearing their kilts too low exposing a broad expanse of white shirt. It makes their jackets look too short, when in fact their jackets are fine.



Ditto in Pipe Bands with their waistcoats. (With the guy on the left notice the fell of his kilt is well underneath his buttocks.)



Unfortunately the waistcoat issue has become, at least in the USA pipe band scene, one of those things where people fix a problem by addressing the symptom rather than the cause.

Most pipe bands I know get their waistcoats/vests from Higgins, and Higgins makes vests in regular, long, and extra long. These latter have become popular with pipe bands, worn by people of ordinary height, because it hides the expanse of shirt caused by the kilt worn down around the hips.

I'm having a problem I've rarely had in my life, a jacket that's too long.

I bought it vintage. I'm a big person, 6'4" so I wasn't frightened off by the jacket's label saying 50 Long.

Well, it's just too long, both in the sleeves and in the body, as you can see. I think I'm making it worse by wearing my kilt too high.



I say that because the jacket doesn't look quite as too-long here

[Shinenotburn]

The new kilt still looks great Richard!
Well done.

[Brian Rose]

Steve has mentioned the change in cuff length to expose more cuff. I heard Johnny Carson ( a popular TV presenter of 20+ years ago) was to blame. Johnny had a habit of tugging on his shirt sleeves as he stepped onto the stage. The dolor TV cameras of the day were slow to react and caused a flare onscreen when the white cuff popped into view. The producer spoke to the costumer. Johnny's coat sleeves were shortened to expose more of the shirt cuff all of the time and avoid the sudden flare.
I've no idea how true the story is but it does sort of make sense. The sleeve length of men's jackets has been shortened since the sixties and more cuff is exposed.