Jacket question / advice

**jaywin** · 4th May 17, 09:37 PM

So I just received a phenomenal kilt made by Barbara Tewksbury. My wife mentioned I should plan on wearing it to our Christmas Eve dinner this year. Now I'm on the hunt for a jacket. I much prefer the day wear look but realize this would not be proper for dinner. I'm looking to find an evening jacket and possibly a waistcoat. Can someone explain the difference between a Prince Charlie, Argyll and Braemer ? What the purpose or occasion they are intended for? Black or dark blue? Also, any options other than the big silver buttons? My kilt is in modern Duncan. So any color would work.

Thanks in advance, JW

**Steve Ashton** · 4th May 17, 09:55 PM

The Prince Charlie Coatee is the kilt equivalent of the tuxedo. It has satin lapels. So it is only worn with a tux shirt and black bow tie. Basically for events where, if those not in a kilt would wear a tuxedo.

The Argyle, Braemer and Crail jackets are actually the exact same jacket with different cuff treatments. The gauntlet cuff is called the Argyle. A placket cuff like that found on the Prince Charlie and the jacket is now called a Braemer. If there is just a single button on a closed cuff (without the small slit) then it is called a Crail.

The Argyle/Braemer/Crail jacket is actually more versatile than the Prince Charlie. If worn with a tux shirt and black bow tie it is suitable for tuxedo/Black Tie events. It can be worn with a regular dress shirt and long tie and even with a sweater instead of the vest.

An Argyle can have many different buttons, it just depends on what the maker uses or has in stock. I am quite partial to black buttons on Black Barathea jackets and horn buttons on a Tweed Argyle.

**Jock Scot** · 5th May 17, 01:14 AM

Alright, we are mixing terminology, culture and attire conventions here, plus the added complication of trans-Atlantic interpretations too.

So what would you and the other people at the proposed dinner normally wear in saxon attire terms?

Dinner suit(tux),black bow tie? Suit? Sports jacket and flannel trousers with/without drop down tie? Open necked shirt and jeans? What?

In the UK if one was invited to dinner one would wear a dinner suit(tux) and black bow tie or in kilt terms a PC ,or maybe an argyll with a bow tie and both jackets would be made of black(very dark blue) barathea with silver buttons. A tweed jacket would not do in these circumstances.

If the dinner(often called supper in the UK if the meal is to be at home, which gives the guest a guide to the style of attire required) is to be a step down from the formal, --------what we in the UK would call "smart"---- then the tweed kilt jacket(kilt suit equivalent) and drop down tie is perfectly acceptable and correct in kilt terms.

Anything less smart, then one is left to one's experience and discretion on what attire one chooses.

**McMurdo** · 5th May 17, 06:15 AM

First off well done on the kilt Barb does exceptional work. Now to the dinner itself, do you know what formality this dinner is? If you do that makes things that much easier as Jock points out so well. Once that has been determined then you know what to shoot for. In short a tweed argyll jacket might be just the ticket. Take a look at the 1 kilt 10 looks thread:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-attire-46888/

I would suggest to be careful not to mix formalities, the wrong sporran for example can bring down an otherwise perfect outfit. The good thing is you have time to look for exactly what you need once you determine what that is.

**Lady Grey** · 5th May 17, 02:06 PM

Agree with McMurdo
The Sporran & Shoes will be far more important to the outfit and level of formality overall.
I always believe that you should invest good money in accessories that can work with other items in the wardrobe so think of the big picture.
If it's a formal event look at hiring or borrowing a Prince Charlie and spending money on a good quality tweed coat that you will get more wear out of over the years.

Jocks comment on language variations had me giggling as "Flannel trousers" would be pyjama pants in Australia.
The term 'Flannel' generally denotes a brushed cotton that is used for sleepwear and bedding.
Wool flannel is a rarely used term and a fabric extremely hard to source .... I'm the person who drove 3 hours to source a red wool flannel for an historical petticoat once. Ahhh what we do for historical accuracy!

**Downunder Kilt** · 5th May 17, 09:51 PM

Ah Lady Grey, you must remember the 60's and 70's, every gentleman cricketer played the game in cream flannels

**Jock Scot** · 6th May 17, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt

Ah Lady Grey, you must remember the 60's and 70's, every gentleman cricketer played the game in cream flannels

And, well before that!

**Downunder Kilt** · 6th May 17, 01:33 AM

Sorry Jock that is as far back as my memory goes but my dad and uncles did mention something along those lines when I was a boy

Cheers mate.

**IsaacW** · 6th May 17, 06:59 AM

I agree with much of what is said above. With you being in the States, evening dinners do not necessarily mean "formal" as they did historically and in some other locals still. I would see what the level of formality is and match that of the rest of the guests.

For jackets... If this is your first jacket, you may wish to find something that will give you versatility (unless you think you will be purchasing more in the near future). For example, a tweed is a WONDERFUL jacket, but in TX it may be warm and would not be good for FORMAL attire. Prince Charlies and Doublets are GREAT evening wear but you are stuck to just that level of formality. A nice dark Argyll allows you to go between levels of attire a bit more easily, especially if you can accessorize appropriately. There are also jackets out there, often made for pipers, that are barathea but not full Argyll with the cut and cuff. These are nice.

I recently sold this jacket and waistcoat, but liked how it was simple/plain and had a nice modern "sports coat" look with daywear, but could be dressed up to a more formal look as well.

**jaywin** · 6th May 17, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by IsaacW

I agree with much of what is said above. With you being in the States, evening dinners do not necessarily mean "formal" as they did historically and in some other locals still. I would see what the level of formality is and match that of the rest of the guests.

For jackets... If this is your first jacket, you may wish to find something that will give you versatility (unless you think you will be purchasing more in the near future). For example, a tweed is a WONDERFUL jacket, but in TX it may be warm and would not be good for FORMAL attire. Prince Charlies and Doublets are GREAT evening wear but you are stuck to just that level of formality. A nice dark Argyll allows you to go between levels of attire a bit more easily, especially if you can accessorize appropriately. There are also jackets out there, often made for pipers, that are barathea but not full Argyll with the cut and cuff. These are nice.

I recently sold this jacket and waistcoat, but liked how it was simple/plain and had a nice modern "sports coat" look with daywear, but could be dressed up to a more formal look as well.

This is good stuff! Exactly what I'm looking for.