Kilt with U.S. Military Dress Mess

**Chaps** · 6th March 14, 01:04 AM

Does anyone know of any uniform regulations that allows one to wear a kilt with a U.S. Military (Navy in particular) dress mess uniform? I was told that such a regulation exists but have been unable to verify that or find any such regulation.

**Spartan Tartan** · 6th March 14, 04:55 AM

No such regulation exists...that is why you cannot find it.

Bottom line: You should not mix the two--especially if you are currently on active duty (which I assume you are since you live in Coronado).

Almost certainly, someone will chime in and say, "I am retired and therefore no longer subject to the regs."

Well, if you are retired, that is false. Retired service personnel in the United States ARE still subject to the regs with the exception of hair and facial hair grooming standards (i.e. you can wear the uniform with a beard or long hair, but are required to wear the uniform according to the current regulations or the regulations that were in place at the time of your retirement for those uniforms which are no longer in the current inventory).

Even if not retired, those who served honorably are permitted to wear their uniforms in the same manner as above. There is a difference between wearing decorations appropriately with civilian clothing and modifying the uniform...which is simply not permitted within the regulations.

You may do whatever you choose. No one will throw you in jail. But you will not be doing the Navy a service by purposefully wearing your uniform in a manner that is not prescribed. We do not have kilted units, NOR does the Navy have an official tartan (and therefore how could there be a "uniform" regulation to govern it?). There are some crusty old guys in the greater San Diego area as well... rest assured that they will let you know that you are wrong if they see you. And, know that if so... you would be wrong.

As nice as it is to link our cultural heritage to other things that are important to us, it simply is not appropriate to wear a kilt with your mess dress uniform--not from the US Navy standpoint. NOTE: This is different from wearing you mini-medals on the lapel of your PC jacket.

my two cents... not worth even that much, but since you asked...

**Spartan Tartan** · 6th March 14, 05:17 AM

Chaps,

My previous post notwithstanding, I do know of an Admiral that wore his kilt with his mess dress to a Dining Out. He was, of course, sent to the grog for the obvious uniform infraction. So, it can be done, just know that there is not a regulation that permits it to be done. Bear in mind, Dining Outs are unique in the way there is an expectation that people find creative and new ways to "break the uniform rules". And of course... Chaplains are allotted a lot of leeway under such circumstances as well... even by old crusty guys

**S Mitchell** · 6th March 14, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Spartan Tartan

Chaps,

My previous post notwithstanding, I do know of an Admiral that wore his kilt with his mess dress to a Dining Out. He was, of course, sent to the grog for the obvious uniform infraction. So, it can be done, just know that there is not a regulation that permits it to be done. Bear in mind, Dining Outs are unique in the way there is an expectation that people find creative and new ways to "break the uniform rules". And of course... Chaplains are allotted a lot of leeway under such circumstances as well... even by old crusty guys

I attended an Air Force dining out where our Lieutenant, after the dinner, before the dance, removed her jacket and revealed a modified blouse - half Air Force blue formal (in the front) half short sleeved bowling shirt in the back!

**plaid preacher** · 6th March 14, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Spartan Tartan

Chaps,

My previous post notwithstanding, I do know of an Admiral that wore his kilt with his mess dress to a Dining Out. He was, of course, sent to the grog for the obvious uniform infraction. So, it can be done, just know that there is not a regulation that permits it to be done. Bear in mind, Dining Outs are unique in the way there is an expectation that people find creative and new ways to "break the uniform rules". And of course... Chaplains are allotted a lot of leeway under such circumstances as well... even by old crusty guys

Sorry, I take offense to that, as a former reserve chaplain in the Canadian Forces. I took great pride in my uniform and wanted, nor did I feel I deserved, any leeway. If that is the expectation, then I would say, as a chaplain, I would go out of the way to make sure my uniform was "ship-shape", to dispell any myth that I did not deserve to wear it.

**plaid preacher** · 6th March 14, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by S Mitchell

I attended an Air Force dining out where our Lieutenant, after the dinner, before the dance, removed her jacket and revealed a modified blouse - half Air Force blue formal (in the front) half short sleeved bowling shirt in the back!

Normally, the shirt back is not seen when "in uniform"; because the tunic is the uniform. I recall a former colleague who had a formal shirt front but the back was printed cotton with Looney tunes cartoon characters. Not sure that is as popular as it once was, but I guess it still exists.

**Benning Boy** · 6th March 14, 07:00 AM

Surely some will have similar questions about US Army regulations. For them this applies: http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r670_1.pdf No doubt the equivalent Navy regulation is on-line as well. It used to be that the Army dress uniform jacket was no longer considered an official uniform if all Army insignia were removed, to include the buttons, which could then be replaced with civilian buttons. The jacket could then be worn however one wanted. It was the same with the old field jackets. With insignia a uniform, with everything removed, just a common jacket. I would assume a Navy mess jacket with all insignia removed, to include the buttons would no long be considered an item of uniform, and could be freely worn. I'm certain for all services wear of uniforms is limited only to active and retired members. Those who served, but who are not retired may not wear the uniform. Those who served in the reserve components long enough to earn retirement, and who no longer drill, but who have not reached age 60 and begun to draw retirement pay should not wear a uniform unless called back into service, which many are subject to.

ETA: this applies to all http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...-II/chapter-45

QUOTE=Chaps;1222290]Does anyone know of any uniform regulations that allows one to wear a kilt with a U.S. Military (Navy in particular) dress mess uniform? I was told that such a regulation exists but have been unable to verify that or find any such regulation.[/QUOTE]

**SFCRick** · 6th March 14, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by S Mitchell

I attended an Air Force dining out where our Lieutenant, after the dinner, before the dance, removed her jacket and revealed a modified blouse - half Air Force blue formal (in the front) half short sleeved bowling shirt in the back!

A lot of the Soldiers that have been stationed in South Korea have these, mine has Disney characters and my Wife has the Iowa Hawkeyes on hers, very cheap, but quality tailors.

**Benning Boy** · 6th March 14, 07:50 AM

Over the hills and far away, when I was a basic training company commander, I seldom got to have any fun. The drill sergeants had it all. So, just for a change occasionally I'd lead PT in the morning. In those days there was said to be a lot of "Mickey Mouse" in the Army. I'd wear a a gray tee shirt with a large picture of Mickey Mouse on it. The troops always got a big laugh out of it. No one ever said I couldn't wear the shirt. So, you can get away with a lot of violations of he uniform regulations if no one takes them too seriously.