Top of the Kilt (USAK Semi-Traditional, SWK Standard)

[Kent Frazier]

I'm curious as to where the the top of the kilt should be in relation to the navel. USAK says to measure one inch above the navel. Stillwater has you measure at the navel. This got me to wondering if the tops are worn at different heights.

Using the USAK method, my length measures 23 inches. If I bought a Stillwater Standard, could I wear it an inch higher at my waist to get the bottom to be at the center of my knee and still have it look OK?

[ChromeScholar]

Yes, you could. The length on an SWK is 24". You move the waist up or down to get your preferred length at the knee. No one will know the difference.

[Bugbear]

On my SWKs I usually have them up right at the bottum of my ribs and it works out fine.

[gairloch]

Yes, you could. The length on an SWK is 24". You move the waist up or down to get your preferred length at the knee. No one will know the difference.

... except, the bottom of the fell rises too high up...

BR


Dirk

[Barb T]

USAK says to measure one inch above the navel. Stillwater has you measure at the navel. This got me to wondering if the tops are worn at different heights.

As a kiltmaker, I have people measure circumference at the waist (which for some people is at the navel and some not) and a length from there to the top of the knee cap. I then add a rise. So both the length measurement and the waist circumference would tell you nothing about where the top of the kilt should ride.

Barb

[James MacMillan]

As a kiltmaker, I have people measure circumference at the waist (which for some people is at the navel and some not) and a length from there to the top of the knee cap. I then add a rise. So both the length measurement and the waist circumference would tell you nothing about where the top of the kilt should ride.

Barb

This never ceases to trouble me. With some kilt makers, you have to go to extreme lengths to get to understand what the length of the finished product is going to be.

Barb’s comment – and we all agree that she is a very accomplished kilt maker, seems to say, on one level, that she takes the customers submitted length and then adds another two inches.

I know that I want my finished length of my personal kilts to be 23 1/2 inches long. From the very top edge to the very bottom edge. I arrived at this measurement by measureing the overall length of my kilts that fit me best. That doesn’t mean that I can’t wear a kilt that is a little bit longer or a little bit shorter. But when wearing these longer or shorter kilts, they must be adjusted to ensure that the bottom hem is at the right place. That is one very important location.

Advise to all new kilt buyers who are going to have to order a kilt via mail or e-mail or telephone; Make sure that both you and your kilt maker understand the terms that are being used. Go to great lengths to ensure that both of you understand.

Mis-understandings at the start could lead to a kilt that is two inches too long or two inches too short.

It should also be noted that the length of the fell is very different with different people. A kilt maker who sews all the fells to one measurement, will not have good fit for all people.

[Macman]

Using the USAK method, my length measures 23 inches. If I bought a Stillwater Standard, could I wear it an inch higher at my waist to get the bottom to be at the center of my knee and still have it look OK?

Based on my experience, yes. My USAK is 23 inches, and the SWK Standard fits just fine as well. It just has a longer rise. One of my traditional kilts is 25 inches long, and it sits even higher up.

[RockyR]

This never ceases to trouble me. With some kilt makers, you have to go to extreme lengths to get to understand what the length of the finished product is going to be.

Barb’s comment – and we all agree that she is a very accomplished kilt maker, seems to say, on one level, that she takes the customers submitted length and then adds another two inches.

I know that I want my finished length of my personal kilts to be 23 1/2 inches long. From the very top edge to the very bottom edge. I arrived at this measurement by measureing the overall length of my kilts that fit me best. That doesn’t mean that I can’t wear a kilt that is a little bit longer or a little bit shorter. But when wearing these longer or shorter kilts, they must be adjusted to ensure that the bottom hem is at the right place. That is one very important location.

Advise to all new kilt buyers who are going to have to order a kilt via mail or e-mail or telephone; Make sure that both you and your kilt maker understand the terms that are being used. Go to great lengths to ensure that both of you understand.

Mis-understandings at the start could lead to a kilt that is two inches too long or two inches too short.

It should also be noted that the length of the fell is very different with different people. A kilt maker who sews all the fells to one measurement, will not have good fit for all people.

That's why we always tell people to use the measuring instructions on EACH KILTMAKER'S site... different makers do things differently and may need different measurements. Heck, look at Steve Ashton's (FK's) measureing instructions... he gives you a video!

[Barb T]

I know that I want my finished length of my personal kilts to be 23 1/2 inches long. From the very top edge to the very bottom edge.

But whether a 23 1/2" overall length actually _fits_ properly or not depends on how much of a rise the kiltmaker added when he/she made the kilt. You cannot assume that each kiltmaker will add the same amount of rise. A properly made kilt with a 2.5" rise will touch the knee at _exactly_ the same point that a properly made kilt with a 2" or even a 1" rise does. That's because a properly made kilt should be smallest in circumference at the _waist_, not at the top. Once a kilt is buckled on, it will ride at your waist, with the rise above and the rest of the kilt below.

I've made two kilts for Turpin, one with a 2" rise and one with a 2.5" rise (at his request). One has an overall length 1/2" longer than the other, but they both touch his knee at exactly the same point.

So, I concur with Rocky. You absolutely _must_ know how your kiltmaker uses measurements. When I make a kilt, I don't want to know how long your favorite kilt is overall. I want to know what the distance is between the center of the waist buckle and the bottom of your favorite kilt. That way, I know that I can make a kilt that will fit the way your favorite one does in terms of length, even if it's not the same overall in length.

Barb

[James MacMillan]

That's why we always tell people to use the measuring instructions on EACH KILTMAKER'S site... different makers do things differently and may need different measurements. Heck, look at Steve Ashton's (FK's) measuring instructions... he gives you a video!

Of course! And the best of all possible situations is to be able to have a face-to-face fitting. That way any problems can be caught early on.

I'm going through a return right now, that I don't know how else the problem could have been handled. I gave my measurements, the absolute best that I could, and still ended up having to send the kilt back to be tweaked. I don't think this was a problem with the kilt maker, maybe just a peculiarity of my body. Well, now that I think about it, I do have a non-standard body….

Maybe someday, we will be able to scan our body into a measuring machine like the movies, and have a perfect product come out.

When I was growing up, we once lived close to a seamstress that made custom women's dresses. She had an adjustable wooden mannequin (womanequin? ) that she could dial-in or adjust the sizes somehow, and she sewed parts of the stuff right on the dummy. The expensive tailors also demand personal measurements. I have a shirt maker in Mexico City that has my measurements on file, and he can make a perfect shirt for me everytime, but I went to his shop and he measured me.

Being able to visit our kiltmaker is a luxury that most of us don’t have, so we must be extra careful.