Waist Measurement of MoD Kilts

[CrisdeanCaimbeul]

Looking for a definitive answers to the following questions:

1. The waist measurement on the tag of a UK MoD-contract kilt: is this the smallest setting? the middle setting? or the outside setting of the belts?

1a. An RRS kilt: same answer?

1b. An older, say ASH or BW kilt: same answer?

2. For those who've acquired such a kilt and have some experience, what would you say would be the ideal stock size for approx. 35" kilt waist, 39 1/2" hips, and a height of 5' 9 1/2"? (I do know that these measurements are on the larger end of the [historic] spectrum!) On the face of it, I would assume either an 86cm (33.8") or 92cm (~36"). My preference would be for the kilt to be set to the interior most holes (or plus 1).

Bottom-line here: I looking for a Government (and Government sett) kilt, and the manifold uncertainties coupled with international shipping is killing me. None of the military surplus shops seem to know a thing about kilts. Help me kilt geeks!

[Tobus]

I'm sure there will be variations based on year, maker, type/construction, age/stretch, etc. But my "kilt no. 2 Q.O.H." from 1993 is marked as an 84cm waist. It measures about 84.5cm from the left buckle to the first set of holes on the strap that connect to it. I will assume the extra half-cm difference is just from stretch over time or simple tolerances in construction. There are two more sets of holes on the strap, spaced at 2cm between holes.

So this kilt actually measures between roughly 84cm and 88cm of adjustment for the waist. From that, I would say the marked waist size is at the tightest adjustment. But your mileage may vary with other MoD kilts.

I have an older 1974 No. 1 kilt (A&SH O.R. & Pipers), but the waist size is illegible on the tag due to Sgt. Parker writing his name over it. And it's missing the left buckle, with the inner apron strap being removed entirely and the hole sewn shut. So no help there!

[OC Richard]

There are a number of issues I can think of.

One thing is the length. Military kilts normally don't give the length, just the height of the wearer. An old military kilt for a man of normal height might have a total length of 26 inches, while many Americans of the same height nowadays are ordering kilts 23 or 22 inches long, which in the old days would only be worn by a youth or a very short man.

(In non-Highland ordinary fashion the "waistline" has been getting lower and lower, the trousers that come with mens suits being 3 or more inches lower than they were in the 1940s.)

The new RRS kilts might have a lower rise than old army kilts did, or it might just be the fact that they're tending to wear the kilts a bit lower than soldiers used to.

Another thing is "Government sett".

I have seen it stated in older books that the Other Ranks kilts of the Black Watch and the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders were made from the same fabric, however the kilts were pleated differently, both knife pleat versus box pleat, but also in which part of the tartan was chosen to be repeated in the pleats across the back.

As I recall the Black Watch kilts were pleated to a blue area, the Argylls to a green area.

Senior sergeants and officers of the Argylls used a different cloth, with the green a lighter shade than the OR's fabric. This appears to be the cloth adopted for all ranks of the RRS.

Likewise I've seen it stated that officers of the Black Watch used cloth with a darker green than the OR's fabric.

Which implies that a "Government sett" kilt could be in one of three different fabrics, and two different pleating styles, in all four different sorts of kilts: Argylls Other Ranks, Argylls Senior Sergeants/Officers (RRS), Black Watch Other Ranks, and Black Watch Senior Sergeants/Officers.

About measurements, old army kilts were measured in inches, newer ones metric.

An Argylls Senior Sergeants/Officers kilt with the light shade of green, and pleated to the line in the green block.



An unissued Argylls Other Ranks kilt made by Thomas Gordon, Glasgow.



A Black Watch kilt.



The label of a Black Watch kilt made by Thomas Gordon