Why traditional?

[IsaacW]

Many comments and discussions that I have read here over the last few weeks have been sitting upon my brain. Ultimately it comes back to why I choose to "kilt up" in a more traditional way. I think I have most of my thoughts together and would like to attempt to get them out in, hopefully, an understandable fashion.

1.) First, to me traditional is not historic. I have heard a lot of comments that folks dressing in "THCD" are trying to emulate those in photos of the 1920s. While many kilt wearers of the 1920s do look like this, I would say that many kilt wearers are also dressing like this in Scotland today. This is the thing about "National Dress" and "folk costume." Elements of historic dress are somewhat freeze framed, embellished, romanticized, etc. and become this attire. This can be seen in the "national/traditional" clothing of many countries (maybe I need to wear my lederhosen and trachten apparel tonight ;-) ). Elements also change over time, but do not necessarily follow the changes in fashion. While many wear kilts simply as another lower-body garment, I wear it with thoughts toward the history and symbolism of the garment and its connection to Scotland. Tradition is simply pulling elements of the past forward in continuity.

2.) This leads to the idea that traditional dress is "too dressy." I think this is a misunderstanding and as other "THCD" posts show; shirtsleeves, no tie, jumpers, and a more casual look CAN be "traditional." Also, as earlier mentioned, these fashions do originate in a time period that was a bit more "dressy" than our casual society today. Beyond that, I personally tend to dress up more than my peers on a daily basis. For work, I wear a tie 5 days of the week. When out and about, I would rather dress more than not. This is just my preference (and for work, my opinion that if you want to be treated as a professional, you must dress as one).

3.) I hear that if dressing "traditional" I am trying to emulate a laird. Perhaps this is so. Looking at fashion history, it is normally the aristocracy and the elite that influence the bulk of fashion. If one wears anything fashionable, they are likely emulating the elite. Even in the United States this is the case. While most Americans like to think we have no aristocracy and that we are all individuals, free upon ourselves; the reality is that most people's fashion is set and influenced by the Entertainment Industry, the Fashion Industry elite, Athletes, and a variety of other "famous" people.

4.) Finally, to a great degree... my highland apparel is just a kilted reflection of my normal attire. Many folks that do not understand "traditional" highland attire, simply state that you should wear the kilt as you do pants. In many ways, this is what I do. Although wearing the kilt means many things to me (some alluded to above and hence why I wear a kilt instead of pants); I tend to dress a lot like this in common attire/Saxon dress. My favorite jacket is a Harris Tweed that a friend of my grandfather gave me when I was 18 (I am wearing it today, 20 years later). I have a number of other jackets much like this. I wear ties all week. When I wear a shirt and tie, I prefer to have a waistcoat or jumper on as well (just my aesthetics). I like wearing brogues and often wear striped or argyle socks. These are the looks that I tend to enjoy and are my personal likes. I also think they are rather "classic" and need not be changed every year or so to follow the fickleness of fashion. Here are a few images I found in the computer of me at work over the past year or so...

[Father Bill]

Hi Isaac.

The ideas you ponder are probably common to many of us, self included. In 1971 - 72 I was one of two student teachers who actually wore a jacket and tie to class every day for the whole year, and I continued to do so for the years in which I taught. It's usually referred to as "dressing better," or a "higher level" of dress, which can be misleading. It's not about putting ourselves up any ladder, it's about taking a different kind of care in our daily preparations.

The whole discussion of "what 'traditional' means" has gone on here at XMarks for a very long time, and while it's useful, it's also sometimes confusing, and I know that there are even occasional tensions between those who prefer one mode or the other, and sometimes a sharp word or two. I certainly follow certain sub-fora more closely than others simply because they interest me more. If I can be blamed for that, then I can be blamed for almost anything!

The one thing that perhaps I do a wee bit differently, reading between your lines, is that I'm willing to wear something more casual above the waist if the weather demands it and, providing that I'm not attending a more formal occasion.

Good manners demand not that you dress either "up" or "down" but rather that you dress to fit in - something that's darned difficult with a kilt in some situations!

Good thinking, and an interesting post!

[Jock Scot]

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-----Good manners demand not that you dress either "up" or "down" but rather that you dress to fit in - something that's darned difficult with a kilt in some situations!

Good thinking, and an interesting post!

Thank you Bill for giving me a lead in to answering the very good question. I was struggling there for a while.

Yes Bill has it dead right when he brings up the "demands of good manners", but unlike him I have absolutely no problem moving from, say smart kilt attire to smart lounge suits, or from Black tie kilt attire to a dinner jacket.

I wear a tie for most things, I wear a tweed jacket often with trousers-- Chords mostly, I wear if the occasion requires it a smart dark grey suit, I wear a tweed three piece shooting suit(plus 4's) to shoot in and always with a tie, I usually fish wearing a tie and depending who with and where, I often wear a tweed shooting suit to fish. I can choose to wear a morning suit if appropriate and I can wear a dinner jacket and black tie if required and if really necessary I could come up with a white tie outfit too. I can even do no tie and shirt sleeves too. And------

AND I can do all of that in appropriate kilt attire too. I am not boasting or anything like that, its what I have done one way or another, all my life. Its as simple as, do I wear the kilt or not? After that, I don the appropriate attire, without a second thought.

What absolutely mystifies me are some members here and others that I have seen with my own eyes, who dress up to the nines in tweed jacket, tweed waistcoat, 8 yards heavy weight wool tartan, wool hose and topped off with a woollen bonnet in 90 degree temperatures-----no wonder they need a cromach to hold them up! I do wonder if common sense has fallen foul of wanting to dress the part?

What seems to be missing for some, not all, is the judgement, confidence and discretion when making dress decisions with kilt attire to fit the occasion and the weather. The end result is often sadly, an overdressed and almost cardboard cut-out example of traditional Highland Scots kilt attire and that is not traditional.

[Father Bill]

Umm Jock... I think I said that?

[Jock Scot]

Umm Jock... I think I said that?

Indeed you did Bill and you made the point so well that I thought I would strike while the iron was hot, so to speak and say it again!

[Father Bill]

You're the man, Jock!

[Alan H]

I sometimes choose to wear a bunch of kit that most folks on XMTS would consider to be traditional. You know, I strap on a wool kilt and pair it up with colored knit hose and leather shoes. I wear a leather kilt belt with the typical "kilt belt buckle" and have on a leather sporran. The shirt I wear is button-up, sometimes with a small checked pattern, and I wear a plain colored tie and a tweed vest with it. I don't do this a lot, but I DO dress like this now and then.

Why? Well, the answer is really pretty straightforward.

Because I think it looks good.

[IsaacW]

Thanks for humoring me and replying everyone.

The thing we all have in common is that we like kilts... that is why we wear them. Why we like them differs as do many of our choices, tastes, etc.

As for temperature and event dictating how to dress, I agree. I certainly would not wear a bathing suit to work, nor a suit to the beach. Of course, it is not always that simple.

Culturally, things are different here than in the UK or elsewhere. Jock mentions wearing a tie fishing. I love that and know that it would not be seen as too odd in the UK, however here in WI it would be very out of place. This stated, most that know me would not be surprised to see me in a tie with fly rod in hand.

This brings about the idea of personal tastes, preferences, and aesthetics. Some will dress in what they like regardless of the situation. My father does not wear shorts. It can be 100F and he will have trousers on. Meanwhile, I have a colleague that wears shorts all year round, even in winter.

Finally, although weather and the event can dictate dress; they can also conflict with one another. I have seen plenty of gentlemen (and have been one) sweating away in a suit or tuxedo in a summer wedding. This past weekend, I chaperoned the junior prom at our school and was overly warm in my evening dress. I certainly would have been more comfortable (physically not mentally) in shorts and t-shirt.

My point is that, like all things, it is not always so simple. As much as I am prattling on and being oppositional (maybe), I agree very much will all that has been stated thus far.

IW

[Jock Scot]

I quite accept, Isaac, that sometimes duty overrides more sensible attire and that is one of those things that probably there is little or no choice, even for civilians.In fact, just like the Laird who is opening the Games and presenting the prizes and meeting visiting dignitaries at his local Highland Games. What I fail to grasp are those that overdress for no reason at the expense of common sense the end result is as disappointing as those who look overly casual.

[The Q]

I'd agree with most of the comments above, From my school days (early 70s) where we still had a few teachers in black gown and all were jacket and tie or ladies equivalent . It's now got to the stage where teachers not formally dressed are trying to justify to children why they have to wear school uniform.
While in my last two jobs I haven't worn a tie unlike the previous 27 years, I'm still one of the smartest dressed normally. Trousers, black polished shoes and a polo shirt , jackets are not practical under a lab coat all day at 23 +_ 0.5 C and occasionally dipping a tie into the oil bath I work with is not good, so no tie (coat hat gloves to and from work).
While the rest are, torn jeans or those strange below the knee shorts, a tatty T shirt or some shirt which advertises the maker.
While so far I have only worn the kilt to my sailing club ( Note this is the cheapest club in the area we all do tasks to keep the club running there are no paid staff) In Saxon wear I would still wear, as do 10% of the others, blazer and tie for one of our functions, this has been substituted by the kilted equivalent for me recently. In some ways I still fancy a, for kilt styled blazer.
The tweed jacket SWMBO is converting for me is a light weight summer one, so good for hot summer fetes or crowded indoor non formal functions.
I have no intention to dress like a laird but "in public" I like to be reasonably smart.
I for instance would never wear a suit without a tie, Alexander Armstrong singing at the 70th anniversary Celebrations for the end of WW2, looked out of place in full suit and waistcoat and no tie. and as for that hat GREGORY PORTER wore, weird!
Getting back to the subject
So overall THCD I think is incorrect if at it's most formal, for less formal occasions, but this has come from the fact that the only kilt wearing most see is at weddings or "Laird photographs".
I do like the fact most of us here seem to want to dress smartly.