A 19th Century Sgian Dubh

[Séamus Ua Proinsias]

I was poking around some design stores in Hollywood (I just entered the very earliest stages of planning to furnish a flat) yesterday (kilted, of course, as I have been for the last sixteen days straight), when what to my wondering eye should appear? This little gem (and I do mean that literally):



It looked like real citrine to me. The tag next to it read:

Rare early 19th Century
Scottish Knife
'Sgian-Dubh'
$5500

Thanks to California's draconian open carry (or concealed carry, if it's stuck into hose, but only maybe) laws (stricter in parts of Los Angeles, but not other parts, but only maybe), which I have been categorically unable to figure out, I still don't have a sgian dubh, but this sighting certainly whetted my appetite (pun not originally intended) for one.

Jake

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Awesome... especially the price!

[Dale Seago]

. . .California's draconian open carry (or concealed carry, if it's stuck into hose, but only maybe) laws (stricter in parts of Los Angeles, but not other parts, but only maybe), which I have been categorically unable to figure out. . .

Aye, I know. Where blades are concerned, California municipalities are free to enact local ordinances which are more restrictive than state law. In practice, most don't. And in practice, even where more restrictive ordinances exist, most agencies don't bother enforcing them. But they ARE out there in some places, and L.A. is one of them.

If I go down that way again to teach a martial arts seminar, as I've done from time to time, I'm taking and wearing (once I'm off the plane and have my checked bag) the staghorn sgian Taygrd made for me. I doubt I'd get hassled in the first place; but if it happened I'd happily trot out the myth which can be found so easily online that the sgian dubh derives from the concealed-carry sgian achlais and that wearing it in the stocking began with the custom of placing it there when entering someone's home as a guest precisely so that it would be visible and not concealed, thus showing your honorable intentions.

[Ryan Ross]

It's an interesting piece, for sure... but I'd like to hear from someone who knows better than I: Is it really early 19th century? Because I would have guessed mid to late. Victorian.

[Dale Seago]

It's an interesting piece, for sure... but I'd like to hear from someone who knows better than I: Is it really early 19th century? Because I would have guessed mid to late. Victorian.

Given the canted cairngorm pommel, I'd agree.

[Ryan Ross]

...and what are those tacks on the handle made from? They look red.

Also, I know sgians of this period are always made with a hidden tang (as are most modern sgians and dirks, as well), but do they tend to use a two piece handle construction (glued together sandwich style), or do they tend to have a one piece construction with the space for the tang drilled out?

Because I see a seam there that's either two pieces of wood glued together, or from moulding (in plastic); sorry, but when they labled that thing as early 19th century, they lost all credibility in my eyes.

[BEEDEE]

At that price the fittings should be silver. The hallmarks would be a good guide to the age.

Brian

[artificer]

...and what are those tacks on the handle made from? They look red.

Also, I know sgians of this period are always made with a hidden tang (as are most modern sgians and dirks, as well), but do they tend to use a two piece handle construction (glued together sandwich style), or do they tend to have a one piece construction with the space for the tang drilled out?

Because I see a seam there that's either two pieces of wood glued together, or from moulding (in plastic); sorry, but when they labled that thing as early 19th century, they lost all credibility in my eyes.

A quick and dirty image enhancement yields the following:



I think the "seam" you are seeing is the end of the carved face.
The studs to appear to be small cabochons of garnet or similar.

My knowledge of Scottish art & craft is certainly no rival for others here, but I'd say it was Victorian based on the silver work.

ith:

[Ryan Ross]

A quick and dirty image enhancement yields the following:



I think the "seam" you are seeing is the end of the carved face.
The studs to appear to be small cabochons of garnet or similar.

My knowledge of Scottish art & craft is certainly no rival for others here, but I'd say it was Victorian based on the silver work.

ith:

Thanks for that, Scott. I'm not accustomed to actually handling items like this, so most of what I see are pictures that don't show the back of the item. I suppose I never thought about the idea that the carving might stop so abruptly.

It looks like a very nice piece, for sure...the plastic hypothesis was, certainly, mostly in jest.

It still seems like the price asked is ridiculous, though, especially if it comes with no historical details (which I'm guessing it does not, as it's almost certainly been misdated).

Eh, who knows...

[Séamus Ua Proinsias]

Boy, I'm so glad I posted this! Most fascinating, Sirs!

Given the place I found it, a misdating, even one totally immalicious, doesn't strike me as out of place, particularly on what is merely an æsthetically pleasing curio to them, and what is a very significant and living part of a tradition to us. And as far as the pricing goes...well, the thing speaks for itself. I'd expect the fittings to be at least twenty-two karat for that usurious sum.

On the laws, I looked at a summary of United States open-carry laws I found somewhere on here, and what struck me as odd is that Pasadena had much more liberal laws than L.A. county as a whole (five or seven-inch blade as opposed to a three-inch blade). But as I say, I never did understand that clearly.

Jake