Argyll jacket top-stitching

**Tobus** · 10th September 12, 01:50 PM

I'm a fan of retro styles. And I like details. One thing that I have noticed on modern Argyll jackets is that they tend to have plain lapels and edges. I can't find any modern companies who make tweed Argyll jackets with visible top-stitching. Is this simply out of style or "old fashioned"? Or is there a maker who offers this, and I just haven't found them yet?

For reference, top-stitching seems to have been common on jackets from the early days up to the 1960s or so, as far as I can tell. Not all jackets were made that way, of course, but top-stitching was definitely more "the norm" than it is today. Here are a couple of examples from MacLeay's portraits which have obvious top-stitching around the edges, followed by an example from 1909 that OC Richard posted earlier today:

Then here is one of my Argyll jackets (1960s vintage, bought on eBay) that also has top-stitching:

But my other two vintage eBay Argyll jackets don't have this. The more I think about it, the more attached I am to the look of top-stitching for tweed jackets or any style of 'daywear' jacket. I know it's a really, really minor detail and doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. But it's one of those little things that I appreciate.

So does anyone know if there are makers today who do this, or even offer it as an option?

**CMcG** · 10th September 12, 04:52 PM

My guess is that anybody making bespoke jackets could do this on request. It would probably even be reasonable for an alterations tailor to do as retrofit. Unless there is some internal structural difference, apart from the surface look of the top-stitching?

It's a nice detail anyway, and not one I had noticed before.

**creagdhubh** · 10th September 12, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by CMcG

My guess is that anybody making bespoke jackets could do this on request. It would probably even be reasonable for an alterations tailor to do as retrofit. Unless there is some internal structural difference, apart from the surface look of the top-stitching?

It's a nice detail anyway, and not one I had noticed before.

Kinloch-Anderson, Highland Clans, and House of Labhran can do the top-stitching. Personally, I don't care for the look, but "to each is own," right?

Cheers,

**artificer** · 10th September 12, 06:27 PM

I'm with you Tobus, on a thick weave, the top-stitch detail is very nice. Oddly enough I have a few Italian suits from the 90's that have this detail on the lapel, although the distance between the edge and the stitch is VERY narrow rather than ~1/4" or so that you see on tweed jackets.

If I were to custom order a highland jacket or 3 I'd certainly make sure to specify that I'd like the top-stitch detail. But then again, I'm a chap who enjoys vintage details.

ith:

**Oberu** · 10th September 12, 06:43 PM

You know.. I don't think it would be that difficult to take a jacket you like and "faux" a top stitch. I'm not sure how crafty a fella you are but I'm betting if you have a bit of time you could modify it to your tastes. Most of the top stitching I've seen is pretty simple, an eighth to a quarter inch stitch showing on the top side with about a thirty second of an inch under and repeat. If your up to try I'd highly recommend using a wheel

and a piece of sharpened chaulk to keep your spacing off the leading edge of the lapel. I wish you luck : )

**Downunder Kilt** · 10th September 12, 07:27 PM

I have two tweed kilt jackets c1960's - 70's that have top stitching and grey one purchased from Paul, a member of this forum, who was selling ex stock for a mate, about 2 years back. There are obviously still some makers that top stitch

**The Wizard of BC** · 11th September 12, 12:41 AM

This topic got me to looking through some of my old tailoring guides. Most notably the 1898 cutter's guide. The kilt and kilt jackets make up 42 pages of this classic and its 1912 and 1936 updates.

I have to admit that I too like the look of top-stitching simply because it is not seen often today, but in the older guides the general consensus is that top stitching was a give away of less than top notch tailoring.

In the days of hand stitching being the hallmark of bespoke tailoring, fine, flat seams were the most sought after. The thinner, finer the seam the better. This also goes along with finer weave fabrics.

Top stitching was regarded as a way used to cover up for less than the best quality fabrics and less than the best quality tailoring.

At this same time heavier, coarser fabrics were only used for field wear. It was regarded as the equivalent of blue jeans today.
As tweed jackets are day wear, top stitching would be more than appropriate.

My jacket maker offers a top stitching option at an additional, but minimal, cost.

**Tobus** · 11th September 12, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by artificer

I'm with you Tobus, on a thick weave, the top-stitch detail is very nice. Oddly enough I have a few Italian suits from the 90's that have this detail on the lapel, although the distance between the edge and the stitch is VERY narrow rather than ~1/4" or so that you see on tweed jackets.

If I were to custom order a highland jacket or 3 I'd certainly make sure to specify that I'd like the top-stitch detail. But then again, I'm a chap who enjoys vintage details.

ith:

Yeah, I don't know what it is about it, but I really love the look. I've had many suits over the years but none of them had it. They were all made in the modern fashion of thin, flattened cloth with smooth, clean seams and edges. As I've aged and started to be more picky about style, I've decided that I don't care for the clean, aerodynamic modern look. In fact, despite being a bit cliche, I think some of the examples from Mad Men represent the pinnacle of being well-dressed. Roger Sterling, who virtually always wears suits with top-stitching, looks about as sharp as a man can get in a suit:

Originally Posted by Oberu

You know.. I don't think it would be that difficult to take a jacket you like and "faux" a top stitch. I'm not sure how crafty a fella you are but I'm betting if you have a bit of time you could modify it to your tastes. Most of the top stitching I've seen is pretty simple, an eighth to a quarter inch stitch showing on the top side with about a thirty second of an inch under and repeat. If your up to try I'd highly recommend using a wheel and a piece of sharpened chaulk to keep your spacing off the leading edge of the lapel. I wish you luck : )

That might be an idea worth trying. I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to just slap a jacket on the sewing machine and run a top-stitch around the edges. I just wonder if the final result might vary depending on what's inside. I would think it might depend on the seam allowance they used at the edge where they turned the fabric back inside.

The problem with machine-stitching would be where the lapel turns over. The 'bottom' of a machine stitch looks different than the 'top' of the stitch. Might have to reverse the jacket (i.e. turn it over and start the stitching again) at that point in order to get the right look to the seam.

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

This topic got me to looking through some of my old tailoring guides. Most notably the 1898 cutter's guide. The kilt and kilt jackets make up 42 pages of this classic and its 1912 and 1936 updates.

I have to admit that I too like the look of top-stitching simply because it is not seen often today, but in the older guides the general consensus is that top stitching was a give away of less than top notch tailoring.

In the days of hand stitching being the hallmark of bespoke tailoring, fine, flat seams were the most sought after. The thinner, finer the seam the better. This also goes along with finer weave fabrics.

Top stitching was regarded as a way used to cover up for less than the best quality fabrics and less than the best quality tailoring.

At this same time heavier, coarser fabrics were only used for field wear. It was regarded as the equivalent of blue jeans today.
As tweed jackets are day wear, top stitching would be more than appropriate.

My jacket maker offers a top stitching option at an additional, but minimal, cost.

Excellent background info, Steve! I figured that might be the case. That would explain why we see it on older tweedy-type jackets and rough woolen jackets, but not on the finer jackets (and, except for the 1970s perhaps, never on evening jackets). I can't say that I've ever seen it done on the thinner, finer materials. The top-stitching seems to 'puff up' the edge, giving it a nice rounded border. It would likely be impossible to get that look on a thin fabric, and would just look odd.

But I think it really enhances the appearance of coarser fabrics, and tends to provide a visible, yet subtle, border detail which outlines the shape of the lapel.