Diced or not diced?

[Bidule]

I assume that this question was often asked and I apologize for it but has anybody a definitive answer to the signification of the diced design for a Balmoral or a Glengarry hat? I have heard a lot of explanations but none of them were very persuasive. Could some member give me some enlightment?

[Peter Crowe]

I assume that this question was often asked and I apologize for it but has anybody a definitive answer to the signification of the diced design for a Balmoral or a Glengarry hat? I have heard a lot of explanations but none of them were very persuasive. Could some member give me some enlightment?

I too have heard various explanations, three of which are:

1) Dicing represents how the ribbons were attached on earlier styles of broad blue bonnet.

2) Diced is a Lowland tradition, undiced a Highland tradition

3) Diced for Hanover (Presbyterian-Whig), undiced for Stuart (Roman Catholic/Episcopalian-Jacobite)

As far as I am concerned these are just theories that someone or other stated, I have not heard or read anything I regard as authoritative on the matter. I'd be interested to find out though!

[Downunder Kilt]

You may find the answers to your question in this thread
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...uestion-65134/

[Peter Crowe]

You may find the answers to your question in this thread
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...uestion-65134/

Thanks Downunder Kilt. The historian on here, Cajunscot (whom I regard as authoritative) goes with the device to thread the ribbons on a bonnet. I doubted the Presbyterian/Hanover thing because the most Presbyterian of the regiments was the Cameronians Scottish Rifles who from the adoption of tartan by lowland infantry in 1882 wore plain undiced headdress (variously a shako, spiked-helmet, balmoral, and a glengarry).

[macwilkin]

Thanks Downunder Kilt. The historian on here, Cajunscot (whom I regard as authoritative) goes with the device to thread the ribbons on a bonnet. I doubted the Presbyterian/Hanover thing because the most Presbyterian of the regiments was the Cameronians Scottish Rifles who from the adoption of tartan by lowland infantry in 1882 wore plain undiced headdress (variously a shako, spiked-helmet, balmoral, and a glengarry).

If I remember correctly, it was Reid who made the comment that if anything, a diced bonnet should signify Jacobite loyalties, given the fesse chequy found on Stewart arms.

T.

[TheBrus]

Drummers wear diced, pipers wear plain.

[Peter Crowe]

If I remember correctly, it was Reid who made the comment that if anything, a diced bonnet should signify Jacobite loyalties, given the fesse chequy found on Stewart arms.

T.

I also heard that theory (because HM Inspector of Constabulary for Scotland was a Stewart) with the adoption of the Sillitoe Tartan (blue/black and white dicing) and Scottish Constabulary Crest (A Thistle above a scroll with the motto Semper Vigilo [Always Watchful], initially surmounted by a Tudor Crown, but since 1975, the Crown of Scotland) in 1932, initially by the City of Glasgow Police. The more plausible reason was that police in peaked caps were hard to distinguish from other uniformed public sector workers, and to improve the force's morale (by creating a distinct Scottish police identifier) when Sir Percy Sillitoe as Glasgow's new Chief Constable was determined the 'Polis' sort out the razor gangs.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I assume that this question was often asked and I apologize for it but has anybody a definitive answer to the signification of the diced design for a Balmoral or a Glengarry hat? I have heard a lot of explanations but none of them were very persuasive. Could some member give me some enlightment?

According to the late Lord Lyon, Sir Thomas Innes of Learney (THE TARTANS OF THE CLANS AND FAMILIES OF SCOTLAND, W & AK Johnson, Edinburgh, 1938, pg. 34):

"The term chevtaine is definitely employed in early heraldic literature, and "A cheivetayn's hedd chappelled embattled Or" appears in an heraldic badge in 1562. This "chieftain's embattled cap"... is obviously the origin of the stiff and unnatural-looking Mural Crown, which (tinctured Or) has become more or less confined to persons vested with high military authority... It seems not unlikely that this medieval chieftain's bonnet survives not merely in the Mural Crown of heraldry, but in the diced borders of military Highland bonnets. This border in it's more primitive form was a broad surround of very large checks, a noticeable feature of the bonnet in which the Duchess of Gordon went recruiting."

Innes of Learney further states:

"The provenance and development of the military diced border accordingly deserves research, since its allocation to privates may easily have been a meaningless copying by regimental tailors of what had originally been an ornament restricted to chieftain's bonnets."

[creagdhubh]

According to the late Lord Lyon, Sir Thomas Innes of Learney (THE TARTANS OF THE CLANS AND FAMILIES OF SCOTLAND, W & AK Johnson, Edinburgh, 1938, pg. 34):

"The term chevtaine is definitely employed in early heraldic literature, and "A cheivetayn's hedd chappelled embattled Or" appears in an heraldic badge in 1562. This "chieftain's embattled cap"... is obviously the origin of the stiff and unnatural-looking Mural Crown, which (tinctured Or) has become more or less confined to persons vested with high military authority... It seems not unlikely that this medieval chieftain's bonnet survives not merely in the Mural Crown of heraldry, but in the diced borders of military Highland bonnets. This border in it's more primitive form was a broad surround of very large checks, a noticeable feature of the bonnet in which the Duchess of Gordon went recruiting."

Innes of Learney further states:

"The provenance and development of the military diced border accordingly deserves research, since its allocation to privates may easily have been a meaningless copying by regimental tailors of what had originally been an ornament restricted to chieftain's bonnets."

I like this response. I wear both plain and diced Balmoral bonnets, however, I do not wear diced Balmorals in black or navy blue colours, as I do not care for the red and white, or red, white, and black dicing - as some regiments wear. I do not wish to look like a chap in uniform, so I will wear diced Balmorals in fawn, lovat blue, or lovat green colours. I do not like the saxe blue, maroon, tartan green, and royal blue coloured Balmorals (too bold in my opinion), which is the reason why they are not included in my response.

[AFS1970]

When I started out I was told that diced were for military and plain were for civilians. I now know that to be opinion at best and fabrication at worst, especially considering that there are some regiments wearing plain bonnets.