Jabot's, cravats, and ascots.

[Cowher]

What do you think of them in formal kilt wear? Do you own one? Would you like to?
Do you think they are too old fashioned and out of date or are they still viable?

Please explain your thoughts. And remember to use pictures.
ith:

[Cygnus]

This topic seems to come up pretty regularly, but I don't think I've ever chimed in...

I think Jabots are fine with the right jacket or doublet - I've never thought they look very good with a three-button waistcoat.

Ascots (or riding stocks) are a good alternative to the Jabot for doublets like the Sheriffmuir and Montrose, or with other high-fastening jackets (like riding coats).

I draw the line at cravats, and am not much of a fan.

I plan to pick up a jabot and will use it when I'm feeling especially flamboyant, but I generally prefer a simple self-tie bow tie in black or white, depending on the level or formality.

[Chas]

I own two jabots, one modern and one antique (with matching cuffs). For uberformal, I think they are just the thing. As Cygnus says, they require a high buttoned waistcoat - 5 buttoned might not be enough.

The day cravat (as opposed to the dress cravat) was worn in the early decades of the twentieth century as casual wear, often as sports wear such as when playing golf. The Duke of Windsor often wore one in this manner. It was regarded as an elegant form of casual dress. Ascots of the casual day cravat variety were popular fashion in the United Kingdom for teenaged and young adult males from the mid 1960s to the mid 1970s, coinciding with the mod and psychedelic movements.

The last time I saw anyone wear a cravat was in 1970. Now-a-days, it would look too much like an affectation. I am looking to get some sort of riding stock in the near future, to go with my new Sheriffmuir.

Regards

Chas

[Bugbear]

As far as I have been able to figure out, the jabot's appropriateness in black-tie-equivalent Highland attire is dependant on which region of Scotland one is in or the region of Scotland from which one comes: East vs. West. This seems to be projected on the wearing of the jabot in that situation outside of the Highlands to some degree or another from either side in some of the discussions on the forum. I think the jabot is always an appropriate option in white-tie-equivalent Highland attire.

I'm not Scottish!

[jeremy j starche]

I have two strikes against me when it comes to my choice of neckwear:

1) I think that ties (regular long ties or bow ties) are both horridly silly things that should never have seen the light of day. I detest wearing them and go to great lengths to avoid them.

2) I live in an area where the kilt is seldom seem, so folks can't compare me to anything they are used to.

When I wear something with the kilt, the look usually comes out more like this:

My father and I in kilt, I'm the one in lace.

Hmm.. maybe I should get brave and do a 'critique my summer wear' thread..

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think looking a little old fashioned is not necessarily a bad thing in highland dress, so long as it is done in good taste. After all, to many, donning the kilt itself is evocative of past traditions, and there are many aspects of Highland attire which were introduced 100 or 150 years ago and are still very much in vogue today.

So I think items such as lace jabots and cravats fit right in to this mindset.

I own a jabot and cuff set which my wife hand knit for me in a Victorian era Shetland lace pattern. I like it as it is a bit more subdued than the typical jabot sets one sees mass produced these days. I also had her use a natural undyed yarn, so it is not pure white.


And on...



I also own a black silk cravat, and I like to wear this on occasion as an alternative to a black bow tie - precisely to give my outfit a bit of that "old fashioned" flare. I doesn't feel to me at all like an affectation.




One thing I do not yet own which I wouldn't mind having is a white Highland cravat or neck stock. Here is Lamar Britt (of Ferguson Britt fame) at our last Burns Supper wearing one with great style.

[Joshua]

I'm just not a lace guy.

Ascots/Cravats remind me of the jock in Scooby Doo... or the fashion of 1970's - 1980's Ken dolls.

A simple 4-in-hand knotted tie, a nice shirt, and my black argyle with black buttons (I had the silver buttons replaced) are as formal as I'll ever go at this point in my life.

Faux pas be damned, I find classic daywear to be more to my personal style and liking than the overly formal look anyway - my next Burns dinner likely will be brown leather accessories, tattersall, tweed... and *gasp!* an antler sgian dubh! Ok, I might skip the tattersall...

[Bugbear]

I'm just not a lace guy.

Ascots/Cravats remind me of the jock in Scooby Doo... or the fashion of 1970's - 1980's Ken dolls. ...

Maybe that's my problem.

[CMcG]

What do you think of them in formal kilt wear? Do you own one? Would you like to?
Do you think they are too old fashioned and out of date or are they still viable?

Please explain your thoughts. And remember to use pictures.
ith:

As I understand it, a jabot is very appropriate with Highland white tie formal but can also be worn for black tie formal. For myself, I feel like a jabot is a bit much for black tie formal. They are still quite viable in that the pomp and ceremony surrounding an actual white tie event is likely to have a fair amount of tradition and/or social importance associated with it. A jabot is definitely not everyday neckwear!

That being said, I've never been to a white tie event and don't have any lined up in the foreseeable future. I do go to the occasional black tie formal event and would wear either a self-tie black bow tie or a riding stock. Am I wrong in thinking that a stock could be considered a type of cravat?

Here is my white stock tie:

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Note that I'm wearing my black silk cravat outside my collar, as opposed to an ascot, worn inside the collar, which apparently reminds some on the forum of a certain super-sleuth from their youth...


Or the more usual way of wearing them entirely inside the shirt.


One thing that is nice about a traditional cravat/ascot is that there are different ways of wearing them. I've never worn mind inside the collar like this, as I agree it is a bit out of the ordinary these days. However, I think wearing a cravat outside the collar can be a nice alternative to a neck tie or bow tie, especially when wearing Highland dress, which is a bit outside the ordinary to begin with.

I have no doubt that if I wore my silk cravat with an ordinary suit, people might think I was a bit eccentric. But with the kilt, no one has yet commented that the cravat was out of place. In fact, more often than not, people ask where I got it!

Here's the answer:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/Gentlemansjabot