Kilt jackets

[Laird_M]

Folks,
Been asked a question which also fits in with some stuff I'm preparing for Scouts...

A friend is looking to buy a couple of kilt jakcets and is confused about the number of jackets available. He's identified 9 jackets, a couple of which I haven't even heard of and wants to know the 'order of formality' so he can decide which to buy. He's also been told that Argyll and Crail are the same but the examples of Argyll he's seen have one button on the sleeve and Crail have 3 and Braemar examples his seen are either tweed like or listed as 'black tie'. Despite his views, I know I'm no expert on such matters...

I've done a couple of searches but can't quite figure out if the list below is correct.

Harris tweed > Araca tweed > (Braemar) > Argyll/Crail > BPC > (Braemar) > Regulation Doublet/Kenmore Doublet > Sherrifmuir.

[McClef]

Moved to kilt accessories as the discussion is about jackets.

[The Wizard of BC]

Ok first of all you seem to be confusing the fabric that a jacket is made from and the style of jacket.

Tweed is tweed, regardless of who wove the fabric. So any jacket that is listed as made from Tweed will be from similar fabric but may be in different styles.

Please note that I am not going to discuss vest or waistcoats There are just as many different styles of vest/waistcoat as there are jackets and I don't want to confuse the issue.


Let's start the styles with the one that seems to confuse many people. There is a type of jacket that at first glance looks similar to a jacket worn with trousers. It usually has a double vented back that comes down to the crest of the butt.
Depending on what style of cuff it has, and what style of collar it has, some makers will use different names.

Crail/Braemer/Argyle/Killkenny/ are basically the same jacket. Here is a drawing of the first three from the Lochcarron catalog.



You should be able to see that these three are basically the same jacket with the exception of the cuff treatment. All three are single button front jackets with scalloped and buttoned pocket flaps and epaulettes.

A Crail has a single button on a closed cuff. This means that there is no small flap where the button is.
A Braemer has a placket cuff with three buttons. This is the same cuff style found on a Prince Charlie which you will learn about later.
An Argyle has a gauntlet cuff also with three buttons.

Either of these jackets may be made from Tweed for day wear or some other fabric. The most common fabric for more formal wear is called Barathea. It is usually black.

There are a very similar jackets which is called Killkenny. This is supposed to be an Irish jackets and will have a shawl collar instead of the notched collars of the first three.


To sum up so far if these four are made from any Tweed fabric they are considered day wear. If they are made from Black Barathea weave wool they are considered more formal, - Business suit to black tie equivalent depending on the other accessories.

There is one further style of jacket but it is not seen too often. I carry one style of these but they are exclusive to me. These styles are called Wallace style by one maker.
They usually have a straighter, 2, 3 or 4 button front. They usually have a normal suit jacket type of cuff with 2, 3, or 4 buttons. They usually do not have the scalloping to the pocket flaps and do not have epaulettes. These are usually sold as the equivalent to a regular suit suitable for day or business wear depending on the fabric they are made from.



One level up in formality are the two jackets called the Prince Charlie (note that it is not 'Bonnie Prince Charlie') and its Irish equivalent the Brian Baru. These are short like military mess dress and have tails, (we call them tashes) in the back.
Again the PC has a notched collar and the Brian Baru has a shawl collar. There may or may not be other differences depending on the maker.
The standard fabric for the PC and BB are, like the Argyle, Black Barathea Wool. Other fabrics may be used such as velvet or other colors.
The Prince Charlie and Brian Baru will almost always have satin lapels so that moves these into the Tuxedo range of formality.
I tell my customers that these two should only be worn when a tuxedo would be appropriate.



I'm not going to go into the 'Doublet' range of jackets other than to describe their features. There are others here far more versed in those styles. I don't own one and probably never will.
The Regulation Doublet is basically a Prince Charlie with two, or double, the number, of tashes.
The Montrose is double breasted and the Sheriffmuir looks single breasted but has buttons on both sides and is worn open.
Doublets are often worn with lace jabot and lace cuffs. Some think that Doublets are the kilt equivalent to White Tie and Tails but I disagree.

[Calgacus]

Ok, where to start!

Firstly, the Argyll, Braemar and Crail jackets are all essentially the same jacket, but with different detailing on cuffs and pockets. There isn't even consent amongst retailers as to which is which! There is no difference in formality between them, it's purely a matter of taste. To simplify things, we shall group these three jacket types under the label 'Argyll' from now on.

The tweed Argyll is the least formal, being the equivalent of a lounge suit. It is typically worn as day wear, or in the evening when a Saxon lounge suit might be worn. Harris tweed is sometimes called the 'Champagne of Tweeds', and I would question suggesting it is less formal than any other type of tweed. It is not a matter of formality, but one of quality.

The Argyll, when made of black Barathea wool, is the equivalent of the Saxon morning dress, and is suitable for formal day wear (weddings & such). It can also be worn as formal evening wear. Some say it's a little less 'formal' than a Prince Charlie, but on the other hand it can suit the larger built gentleman better than a PC.

The Prince Charlie coatee is the equivalent of a Tuxedo, suitable for evening formal (black tie) wear.

The Regulation Doublet is, I believe equivalent to a Prince Charlie.

The Sherrifmuir, Montrose, and Kenmore doublets are all suitable for formal (white tie) wear.

I think I've got it about right, though others may correct me. I hope I haven't glossed over too many details or made any gross errors.

[Laird_M]

Thanks guys.
This is why I told my friend that I wasn't an expert. Even for me, with some little knowledge, its confusing and even some retailer sites give slightly different dsecriptions of the same item.
Proves that this is THE site to belong to. Now I just need to give the good news about costs...

[Benning Boy]

Now that you've been versed in styles, let me make a suggestion. I know I'll get jumped on for this, but think hard about getting a Wallace style jacket from Freedom Kilts, The Wizard's business. You'll hardly ever find them discussed anywhere. They're less costumish than the so called traditional styles, and I think more versatile. I really like mine, it's very clean and simple, about like any suit coat you might buy at a men's store, but kilt cut. The only thing I don't like about it, and only dislike just a little, is the faux antler buttons. Someday, when I get around to it, I'm going to replace them with simple "regular" suit coat buttons. The straight edged pocket flaps of Steve's jackets can be worn either out or tucked in. I've been thinking one in black, with the flaps tucked in, might almost pass as kilt wearing equivalent of the proper jackets worn with a Stresemann stroller suit, a very refined look. You won't look like a Laird wearing one, but you will look distinguished.

[bwat]

Now that you've been versed in styles, let me make a suggestion. I know I'll get jumped on for this, but think hard about getting a Wallace style jacket from Freedom Kilts, The Wizard's business. You'll hardly ever find them discussed anywhere. They're less costumish than the so called traditional styles

*overly dramatic gasp* Costumish??? Ach I suppose all these jackets are just individual points on a continuum and one man's costume is another's cultural indicator. I'm not going to jump on you.

I really like mine, it's very clean and simple, about like any suit coat you might buy at a men's store, but kilt cut.

If I found myself wanting to wear a jacket like that I'd end up wearing a suit. To me, a kilt jacket without the "costume" bits is a bit like a Scottish baronial building without all the wee turrets. The classic look is a smart one in my eyes. I get the feeling I've thought this ever since I was a young lad and such jackets were examples of expensive prestige clothing mainly seen on special occasions.

[creagdhubh]

You won't look like a Laird wearing one, but you will look distinguished.

Now, that's funny!

[Laird_M]

Droll, very droll...

[Calgacus]

To me, a kilt jacket without the "costume" bits is a bit like a Scottish baronial building without all the wee turrets.

Now that might just end up as a quote in my signature