More Balmoral Questions

**bikercelt1** · 13th September 12, 03:56 PM

I've been pouring through the threads about the E-Bay Balmorals and "Jocking" a Balmoral. I've checked out Dunnadd Trading company. I'm sure I've missed or misunderstood a couple of things that maybe somebody can help me with. If I understand things correctly and I intend to Jock my balmoral then I need to order it larger than my actual size so that it shrinks to fit. If that is correct then how much too large do I order? One size? Two? I know it can only shrink so much without becoming goofy.

Around my neck of the woods the belief is that ribbons tied in a bow mean the wearer is married and untied means he's single. On the Dunnadd Trading site it says that Highlanders prefer their Balmoral ribbons loose and Lowlanders wear theirs tied in a bow, which seems backward to me from posts that I've read. Anybody got better information on these practices?

Jamie

**Tobus** · 13th September 12, 04:27 PM

There are varying 'meanings' of the ribbons being tied, and it has been built up as folklore that veers pretty far from the truth. In reality, the ribbons have no universal meaning, or even a well-defined regional one. It really just comes down to personal taste. Except for clan-specific traditions like the MacPhersons (I think), who leave them untied. Some folks just leave them flying because they can't tie the bow to their satisfaction, or cut them off!

As for size, order the size you wear. The shrinking will be controlled by the grosgrain ribbon edge and won't affect the fit significantly during the jocking process. It's mainly the crown that will shrink. Plus, the gap in the back gives you some adjustability in fit anyway.

**madmacs** · 13th September 12, 06:04 PM

Mine shrunk a lot at the bottom as well as the top... was stuck in water for a day though...

**Tobus** · 14th September 12, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by madmacs

Mine shrunk a lot at the bottom as well as the top... was stuck in water for a day though...

Really? I've jocked 2 Balmorals (two different brands), always soaking them for several days, and never had that happen. I was actually hoping it would shrink it down to my head size. I wear 6-7/8 but the closest they had was a 7 on the eBay specials, and it was still too loose after jocking (in fact I noticed no difference in fit - just crown size), so I had to stitch the gap closed and re-attach the ribbons. Can you estimate how much shrinkage there was in the fit? If you did it over again, would you have ordered a size up from your actual measurement?

I guess the real answer here should be "your mileage may vary"!

**flyrod6057** · 14th September 12, 05:38 AM

I've always soaked my headgear. I've done three balmorals and a couple Hoquy berets, and all fit fine. They did snug up a bit initially, but no where near a half size. Cold water shouldn't shrink a hat much, if at all. Water is used as part of the felting process anyway; your balmoral has probably been submerged at least once so far... If you let the damp bonnet dry on your noggin, you should end up with a perfect fit. If it's still a bit loose, repeat the process. It's worked fine for me a number of times.

As for ribbons: On my balmorals, I tie them up and stitch them in place. Loose ribbons on a balmoral remind me of Donald Duck, but to each his own!

**OC Richard** · 14th September 12, 05:57 AM

I guess I'm "out of the loop" because I have no idea what this "jocking" process is.

(edit) OK, never mind! I just now read the thread by Jock Scot, where he took his new Balmoral and threw it in a burn to soak overnight. I know exactly what he means when he talks of the "lopsided flying saucer" because I bought a new Balmoral a year or two ago and it had that odd shape, I suppose because of the sizing in the fabric or maybe just newness. I ended up selling that Balmoral, still in new condition, to a fellow XMarker here. So I see that people have ways of making their new Balmorals look "lived in". (edit)

I still regularly wear a Balmoral that I've had since around 1980 and it's still in great shape. It's been soaked a few times, when it's been on my head in the rain.

About the ribbons, everybody around here wears their Glengarry ribbons hanging but ties their Balmoral ribbons in a bow, as far as I've seen.

**Jock Scot** · 14th September 12, 06:34 AM

To answer the question NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TWO SIZES BIGGER! Yes, I am shouting!

My life has never allowed me to have a bonnet that fits perfectly out of the box, its either too small ,or at best, a tad too big. We are only talking slightly loose here, nothing more. I have found that all the bonnet shrinks, but not a huge amount and one thing that many of you seem to be afraid of is the good kicking. Honestly it will not harm the bonet and does actually help in the shrinking process.

The ribbon question is a load of rubbish in many ways, although many Highlanders do tie them in a bow for practical reasons and does seem to be a Highlander thing and the lowlanders on the whole leave them undone. I also understand that one Highland Clan, the Macphersons traditionally leave the ribbons untied. Why? I know not. As to the married or un-married thing, it is nonsense. I do know of some in the Highlands who will have fun with visitors and lead them astray with all sorts of stories! However, be warned you will get different versions of the same story in different parts of Scotland and they may be only 20 miles apart!

**Friday** · 14th September 12, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

To answer the question NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TWO SIZES BIGGER! Yes, I am shouting!

But Jock you know we are all bigger than average and need the EXTRA LARGE!

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I have found that all the bonnet shrinks, but not a huge amount and one thing that many of you seem to be afraid of is the good kicking. Honestly it will not harm the bonet and does actually help in the shrinking process.

The felting process is two fold, water to aid in the sliding of fiber against fiber and movement or a good kicking. If you don't want to kick it around balling the balmoral up in you hand and rolling it around would give a similar shrink.

**creagdhubh** · 14th September 12, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

To answer the question NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TWO SIZES BIGGER! Yes, I am shouting!

My life has never allowed me to have a bonnet that fits perfectly out of the box, its either too small ,or at best, a tad too big. We are only talking slightly loose here, nothing more. I have found that all the bonnet shrinks, but not a huge amount and one thing that many of you seem to be afraid of is the good kicking. Honestly it will not harm the bonet and does actually help in the shrinking process.

The ribbon question is a load of rubbish in many ways, although many Highlanders do tie them in a bow for practical reasons and does seem to be a Highlander thing and the lowlanders on the whole leave them undone. I also understand that one Highland Clan, the Macphersons traditionally leave the ribbons untied. Why? I know not. As to the married or un-married thing, it is nonsense. I do know of some in the Highlands who will have fun with visitors and lead them astray with all sorts of stories! However, be warned you will get different versions of the same story in different parts of Scotland and they may be only 20 miles apart!

***

As an active member of the Clan Macpherson, I can honestly say that there is no ryhme or reason for why the men of the clan, to include our Chief, leave the ribbons untied on their Balmoral bonnets. There isn't some romantic story, or anything along those lines. It is simply the way it has always been done, so naturally, the tradition has stuck. Actually, I have noticed that most native (Macphersons from Scotland) clan members have cut off their ribbon tails entirely, and even Cluny has a bonnet with the ribbon tails cut off. I think it is still a matter of personal preference, as this "tradition" is very minor in comparison to other Clan Macpherson traditions and customs.

As for my preference, I like to have the ribbon tails tied in a smart, neat bow on my Lovat blue, Lovat green and fawn Balmorals. I have never stitched them into place. I feel this is superfluous for me, because I have never once had to re-tie a bow (well, except for one time when I purposely untied a bow in order to re-tie it, thus achieving a better looking appearance) due to natural circumstances, such as a heavy gust of wind, or rain. I leave the ribbons untied, free to flap in the wind, on my solid black and navy blue Balmorals. I've always done it this way, and is what I feel most comfortable with.

Cheers,

**bikercelt1** · 14th September 12, 02:59 PM

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the feedback. It is amazing how we can get all kind of romanticized ideas about something as simple as tying ribbons in a bow or not isn't it. If I understand what you're all saying I should get my true size and that soaking and thrashing the Balmoral is something akin to aging and blocking a felt western hat.

Jamie