Prince Charlies for White Tie

[orangehaggis]

A few months ago there was discussion about the suitability of Prince Charlie coatees for white tie functions. Somebody of considerably better breeding than I opined that Prince Charlie jackets were just not on for white tie affairs. To further this discussion, I link to two eBay auctions. The first, an Edwardian-style tailcoat; the trousered choice for white tie. The second, a Prince Charlie coatee. Note the distinct similarities between the two.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20s-VINTAGE-BL...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-SCOT...QQcmdZViewItem

Mark - Ohio

[Coemgen]

Well, I have to perform in white tie as part of my voice class I'm taking at university. As I am a Poor, Starving Liberal Arts Student, I'm unable to buy a doublet, so I'm using my Prince Charlie with a white vest and tie, and the usual white tie Highland Dress accouterma.

[Jock Scot]

Oh crumbs here we go again!The Prince Charlie jacket is one and the same thing as the Prince Charlie Coatee,the latter is just an old fashioned name,that's all.

The white tie bit will cause a major discussion of that I have no doubt.Let me take you back some 80 odd years when people dressed in a dinner suit(tux) to go to the cinema,for example.In those days there was a distinct difference between a "black tie" and "white tie" event,with the "white tie" being the most formal.The PC was just the Highland Scots version of a dinner suit(tux).

Times have moved on,some will say thank goodness and in many ways they are right!Dress codes,NOT RULES,have changed,genuine "white tie" events are not common these days so very few people need to have the complete wardrobe.Right then,for me, a PC is not and never will be "white tie" attire,others will think otherwise.

[JerseyLawyer]

Without making any comment on whether "the rules" are right or wrong, the Prince Charlie is technically for black tie wear. For white tie, you'd need a doublet - either the regulation doublet, which looks like a Prince Charlie but with inverness flaps, or a Sheffmuir, Montrose, etc.

My personal opinion is that I am not a fan of the regulation doublet, and I think that a Prince Charlie with a white vest and tie would look quite nice.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

There is absolutely NO reason why a black Prince Charlie coatee can't we worn with white tie. Just as there is NO reason why a black agryll jacket can't be worn for a black tie event. The only line that shouldn't be crossed regards wearing white, or creme coloured hose with formal attire, and that should be avoided at all costs. (You wouldn't wear white socks with a tuxedo, would you? No, not unless under doctor's orders because of some rare tropical foot disease.)

The bottom line is this:

When attending a white tie event (kilted) the shirt, bow tie, and waistcoat MUST be white. The hose should be diced, or tartan, or matched to the darkest colour of the tartan, or black.

When attending a black tie event (kilted) the shirt MUST be white. The bow tie MUST be black, and the waistcoat (if one is worn) should be black, or tartan, or matched to the colours of the tartan (bright red should be avoided as it makes one look like the wine steward). Hose should be diced, or tartan, or matched to the darkest colour of the tartan or to the colour of the waistcoat.

A word of advice here: Avoid bright or loud coloured hose with formal wear. A dark green is to be preferred over kelly green, just as burgundy will look better than fire engine red. Formal attire is about understating how you are dressed, not calling attention to yourself with bright or garish colours.

In both instances shoes should be black, and highly polished.

[Nighthawk]

In both instances shoes should be black, and highly polished.

Does this also apply to ghillie brogues? I don't seem to recall having ever seen them polished.

[JerseyLawyer]

Does this also apply to ghillie brogues? I don't seem to recall having ever seen them polished.

I polish mine. You don't want them to look all scuffed and grungy.

By the way - it's interesting the statement that you should wear dark hose with evening dress. While I agree that that's more pleasing to the eye by far, and closer to what you'd get with diced hose in your tartan, I think "So You're Going to Wear the Kilt" suggests that if you don't have diced hose, evening hose should be white.

At least according to "the purists".

[David Dalglish]

I have always said that Off white is the hose for formal attire. I think that a PC can be worn at a white tie affair.

[Highland Logan]

I polish mine. You don't want them to look all scuffed and grungy.

By the way - it's interesting the statement that you should wear dark hose with evening dress. While I agree that that's more pleasing to the eye by far, and closer to what you'd get with diced hose in your tartan, I think "So You're Going to Wear the Kilt" suggests that if you don't have diced hose, evening hose should be white.

At least according to "the purists".

True.. but he did not agree, and thought that dark hose were more suitable, if one did not have tartan hose or diced hose.

Frank

[orangehaggis]

I used Prince Charlie "jacket" and "coatee" interchangeably in the first post. The links were to 1) a tailcoat, and 2) a PC coatee.

I generally consider myself a bluff old traditionalist, but I can't help but see the similarities in style in both the PC and tailcoat. I think wearing the PC for white tie would present a look in line with what trousered folk would wear; with the doublet presenting a more historical and maybe grander look. Personally speaking, I think I would be more inclined to go with the jacket that blends best with what my trousered comrades wore. That said, I have never been invited to, and likely will never be invited to a white tie function.

As for shoes, I personally don't care for ghillie brogues (the kind that lace up the ankle). I wear either brogues (wingtips), buckle brogues, or footwear appropriate to the activity I am undertaking (walking shoes, ammo boots or wellies, for example).

Mark O - Ohio