Any pilots out there?

[ozone]

Since i cant seem to get registered for and pilot forum groups (they all want to know that you already fly...i want to learn), i figured that some of my fellow kilties who are pilots can answer me a question or two.....

So here's the deal: I signed up for flight lessons with an official cessna training center here in denver. My goals were mostly to learn something new as well as occasionally visit places that would be too far to drive over a weekend with the wife and baby.

Then i got into my head that I could visit my parents-in-law over a LONG weekend (weather permitting). From denver to pittsburgh it's about 1100 nautical miles. Is it practical to bring the wife, baby and myself in a single engine rented (at $120/hour to $170/hour) airplane to a place like pittsburgh? I am still too new to figure out all the gas costs, but the way it looks, most rental planes burn about 10-12 gallons per hour ($5/gallon these days) and most rental planes go about 120 miles per hour. So i ask again, is it remarkably stupid for me to contemplate that a private-plane ride is a practical idea for this kind of trip? Or should i just fly the commercial airlines for long distances?

Thoughts, ideas, comments, web-links and such would be greatly appreciated.

[Mike in Dayton]

I am a private pilot, licensed in 1976, but have not been active for a couple of years. I flew with a flying club which avoided the hassle of owning my own plane or dealing with the FBO (Fixed Base Operator) rentals. Here is what I learned very quickly about flying as a private pilot.

1. Flying time is half of what the trip would take by car. The trip from Denver to Pittsburgh is possible to do in one day if the winds are in your direction. I flew a Piper Archer at about 110 knots/hour (126 mph). Head wind will subtract from that and a tail wind will add to it. I made a trip from western Colorado to Dayton in one day but we had significant tail wind the entire way. In the Archer I could fly about four hours before I landed for fuel.

2. If you want to travel any distance an instrument rating helps. You can travel all over the US with just a private ticket but you will have to wait out more weather than the instrument pilot. HOWEVER, even if you have an instrument rating your experience will limit how much weather you can fly in. As a private pilot you can not tackle thunderstorms. They will rip you into little pieces and spit you out on the ground. You don't have power, altitude or weather radar to cope with them. Traveling from CO to PA you will run into a line of storms somewhere along the route on any given day in the spring/summer. What about winter flying? Now you have something else to contend with: ICE. Unless you have a lot of money none of the private single engine planes you will fly will be certified for known icing. After my first experience with ice I never flew in the clouds (instrument flight rules) in the winter. If the weather forecast calls for icing in clouds the FAA considers that "known icing" (my understanding anyway) and now you risk busting the rules going on that flight. My winter flying was limited to staying out of the clouds.

3. Flying across the country is a lot of fun but have plenty of time because of the weather. The most enjoyable trip I took was Dayton, OH through the Rocky Mountains in the Piper. I went with an experienced mountain pilot. We took seven days to make the trip. We lucked out on weather. Only had one day on the ground because of snow in the Rockies. Don't get sucked into making a bad judgement flying call because you have to be there at a certain time. If you have a tight time frame the airlines start looking better.

4. Keeping an instrument ticket current takes work. You have to travel a lot or spend several hours a month practicing instrument flying "under the hood". If you are not current you have no business flying in bad weather.

4. The typical "four" place single engine plane can not carry four adults and baggage for a trip. It may have four seats but you don't have the load capacity. More like two adults and baggage. Step up to a high performance single then you may be able to do it but not in the Piper Archer or Cessna 172.

Flying is a lot of fun and a great accomplishment to get the license. I am sure you would enjoy the experience. Just keep it in perspective when thinking about using the private ticket for family trips where time is limited and your flying experience low.

Flying is getting very expensive now and if we go to a user fee based air traffic control structure you can kiss general aviation good by. Some will disagree with me but from what I have observed in Europe and Canada a user fee based system made flying too expensive for those of us where it was just a hobby.

Good luck

Mike

[zeeew]

Practical is a relative term. If you are flying anyway and ground issues are the same (car rental, someone picking you up, etc) It is generally a more enjoyable trip flying yourself. If you are flying a high performance plane, say a 182, it cruises at about 140 mph or so. Flying loaded with 4 people the cost will most likely still be a higher than commercial. But it saves the ride to the airport, saves alot of time at the airport when you get there, etc. Also lots more reponsibility.
If you can swing it financially, it can be very rewarding to fly.
I know the AOPA website has good info, but I dont know how much you can do on thier site for free: http://www.aopa.org/

I agree with Mike in Dayton, it can be easy to fly when you shouldnt because you have a case of get there itis.

My instructor says "if you have time to spare, go by air". If you "need" to get there, drive or go commercial. There are too many variables in flying with a private certificate in single engine craft to plan things to the wire. I cancelled a weekend flight once and would have been fine, also decided to stay an extra day once and it was a good thing. Weather is fickle.

[ozone]

thanks for the info folks. I have also heard the phrase " if travel by air have time to spare" and i plan to stick with that philosophy no matter what. What's the user based fee system for ATC? I have not heard of that.

[O'Neille]

I fly anywhere that I can drive in a long day (California, New Mexico, Mexico, Phoenix. Otherwise I go commercial. I used to fly every week now I'm down to about once a month. I can fly a Cessna 172 SP to Silver City in a half an hour and it takes 3 hours to drive. I once flew a friends Super Cub to Florida while he drove. He beat me there.

My only suggestion is to get your money together and get your ticket quickly if you plan on doing it a bit at a time it will cost a lot more. In other words fly everyday until you're done.

[Kerr the Walker]

Not to nit-pick, but being an engineer I'm going to wax anal retentive for a minute, so please pardon the rambling....

a "knot" is a measure of speed (nautical miles per hour), so that would make knots/hour a measure of acceleration....which at 110 knots/hour you could make the 1100 mile trip from Denver to Pittsburg in just under 3 hours.

That's movin pretty quick for a piper archer

[Mike in Dayton]

Not to nit-pick, but being an engineer I'm going to wax anal retentive for a minute, so please pardon the rambling....

a "knot" is a measure of speed (nautical miles per hour), so that would make knots/hour a measure of acceleration....which at 110 knots/hour you could make the 1100 mile trip from Denver to Pittsburg in just under 3 hours.

That's movin pretty quick for a piper archer

Yes, you are correct. Bad habit of mine to add the /hour to knots which is not correct. Well I did say I had a strong tail wind ;)

[cessna152towser]

I fly privately and am IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) rated.
The longest sector which I have undertaken solo is around 100 nautical miles, though I have done some 400 mile trips with a co-pilot. My longest trips have been undertaken in a Pa28RT Cherokee Turbo Arrow which having a turbo engine and retractable landing gear flies faster. The insurance on the Arrow is an obstacle and my use of the Arrow was conditional on my co-pilot being more experienced. Normally I fly a Pa28 Cherokee Warrior and my longest trip on that has been about 250 nautical miles each way which represents more than two hours flying time each way. Flying such a trip with four adults means weight and balance considerations only allow us to fuel up to the tabs which limits the range to around three and a half hours flying instead of five. You really need an IMC rating to fly long distances as the further you travel the more likely you are to meet IMC conditions, and once you have it you need to be prepared to fly regularly in IMC to keep current. Although I have flown solo in cloud it is something I prefer to avoid. Flying in cloud is OK so long as you can concentrate on your T scan and have a co-pilot do your radio and navigation, but the danger zone is an inexperienced solo pilot becoming distracted from the T scan while doing radio or navigation work and inadvertently entering into a spiral dive or stall/spin scenario in cloud. I would certainly consider an 1,100 mile trip in a light aircraft to be a major and challenging adventure and for that sort of distance I would always use scheduled airlines, they can get you where you want to go far more safely, reliably and faster for a fraction of the price of a self fly hire.

[Sciuropterus]

I have a private rating and about 150 Hrs, mostly in Cessna 150s & 172s, and I have also flown Gyrocopters. Lots of night flying in my logbook.

I heard that for the average recreational pilot, your skills are at a peak the day you test for your license and it's downhill from there unless you keep up on your advanced training. I quit flying when I realized I was only flying 1-2 times a month, that is not enough to stay sharp. If I ever have the time/money I would definitely like to resume flying.

I have had an in-flight engine failure and the subsequent emergency landing (at an airport), so I have that experience out of the way.

[Kerr the Walker]

I'd like to have a tail wind like that! It'd cut down on fuel costs for sure.