Can you name this tune?

[glenlivet]

My wife handed me an 'assignment' since I'm the resident 'expert' on Scottish music (between me, her, & the cats, yeah, I'll buy that). There's an anthem she wants to plan for our church's Scottish Heritage Sunday, and the tune is simply cited as a Scottish folk song. The text is The Apple Tree, but of course that has nothing to do with anything, it wasn't the original.

Anyway, for those of you who can read music, not that I'm going to scan it in here, it's in F. (I'll provide an alternate version for you pipers, but you'll have to pretend your pipes can play a high B)

if a note has a comma after it, it's lower, and if it has an apostrophe, it's the higher.
Bar lines indicated by '|' and it's pulsed in 3. Assume 8th note values unless otherwise specified.

In F, the notes of the 1st phrase are:
C, F A | C'(hold) C' D' D' | C'(long hold) Bb | A G F(hold) G A | Bb A G(hold)

or in D:
A, D F# | A'(hold) A' B' B' | A'(long hold) G' | F#' E D E F#' | G' F#' E(hold)

That ought to be enough to go by, if you might have a clue.

Anyone? (Bueller?) I probably will have to scan in, won't I?

[Father Bill]

My music skills are insufficient to be of much use to you, but if all else fails, go to the Faculty of Music at the nearest university and ask to use the "Up-down" finder/ dictionary/ whatever they call it. They'll know what an "Up-down" is. Basically, you track each note change as either up, down, or same (U, D, or S) and it makes something that you can look up like a dictionary entry. If you hum the tune to them accurately, they can usually find it.

Example: Scots Wha' Hae is UDDUUU (grace notes don't count.)

Wild!

[glenlivet]

My music skills are insufficient to be of much use to you, but if all else fails, go to the Faculty of Music at the nearest university and ask to use the "Up-down" finder/ dictionary/ whatever they call it. They'll know what an "Up-down" is. Basically, you track each note change as either up, down, or same (U, D, or S) and it makes something that you can look up like a dictionary entry. If you hum the tune to them accurately, they can usually find it.

Example: Scots Wha' Hae is UDDUUU (grace notes don't count.)

Wild!

Yes! I love that system, actually! practically even usable by the tone-deaf! The closest music library that I know has it is at UNC Chapel Hill, which is a mite bit far to drive just to answer that. Plus, I think it only contained classical works. But I always thought it would a useful way to index bagpipe tunes (assuming removal of the ornamentation, of course)

[EagleJCS]

I put the tune as you indicated into my bagpipe music writer and played it, then searched for 'The Apple Tree' hymn. I found 'Jesus the Apple Tree', written by Elizabeth Poston, which sounds similar - there was a boys choir in one video singing a similar tune. Some of the notes are a little different in duration from what you indicated ('hold' and 'long hold' aren't very helpful - I'd prefer to see the notes and rests, or at least indicate quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.).

[glenlivet]

I'd prefer to see the notes and rests, or at least indicate quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.).

No rests, at least. How's this? Pretty hard to read, I should think. (you don't happen to read Lilypond script, do you?) Again, all notes are eighth unless otherwise yada yada...

A, D F# | A'(dotted quarter) A' B' B' | A'(half-note tied to eighth) G' | F#' E D(dotted quarter) E-16th F#'-16th | G' F#' E(dotted quarter)

[glenlivet]

I found 'Jesus the Apple Tree', written by Elizabeth Poston, which sounds similar - there was a boys choir in one video singing a similar tune.

yeah, I know that carol. It ain't the one--starts similarly to mine, but it's in 4. nice try, though, thanks!

[EagleJCS]

Is the time signature 3/4, 3/8, or 6/8 - or does it vary across the tune? 'In 3' indicates one of these, but only 3/8 allows for the first three notes to be eighth notes with no rests. Unfortunately, that time signature does not allow for a half note to be tied to an eighth. The second measure indicates 6/8.

I've tried putting these notes into MuseScore (shareware music writer) as well, with a variety of three-count time signatures, but the tune is still not familiar.

Sorry. (And sorry, I don't read Lilypond. BMW or music only.)

[glenlivet]

Is the time signature 3/4, 3/8, or 6/8 - or does it vary across the tune? 'In 3' indicates one of these, but only 3/8 allows for the first three notes to be eighth notes with no rests. Unfortunately, that time signature does not allow for a half note to be tied to an eighth. The second measure indicates 6/8.

I've tried putting these notes into MuseScore (shareware music writer) as well, with a variety of three-count time signatures, but the tune is still not familiar.

Sorry. (And sorry, I don't read Lilypond. BMW or music only.)

Time signature is 3/4.

Surely you've seen pieces start with partial-length initial measures. They're called pickups, or anacruses (if the piece is correctly written, the last bar is shortened to the value of the 'missing' notes, and all is well with the world).

Oops, I meant to say that the total value of the high A half note, was a half-note tied to an 8th. Thus adding the G' and you have a full-value bar of 3.

Anyway, thanks for trying. I figured if anyone had a clue, what I provided should be enough of a prompt. Maybe I'll ask my piping teacher...

[davidg]

Anyone? (Bueller?) I probably will have to scan in, won't I?

YES

I have tried figuring out what you are talking about and probably made a good attempt at converting the rather odd way you presented this piece back into proper musical notation but cannot properly fit it all together. The ONLY way to understand music notation is if it is presented correctly, on a musical staff, not as a series of capital letters, apostrophes and commas, which are ambiguous

Apart from an obvious error in your "code" it also provides an insufficient length of the tune to identify it. We need much more information than you have given and that can only be improved on by seeing the full score scanned in. If you can create a high quality TIFF file so much the better as those of us with Sibellius or PrinMusic software may be able to simply import the score and have it playing in a matter of minutes. Then we MIGHT find the answer, but no guarantees

[glenlivet]

ok, well, you'll have to wait 'til I'm home again.