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  1. #1
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    "Halloween goblins scaring off Britain's Guy Fawkes"

    I had to chuckle when I read this article, as it hearkened back to part of the discussion that came up in the recent "Dreaded Halloween" thread. Seems that Halloween is displacing Guy Fawkes' Night across the pond, at least in this author's opinion.
    Remember, remember the fifth of November,
    The gunpowder treason and plot,
    I know of no reason
    Why the gunpowder treason
    Should ever be forgot.
    Please my British brothers and sisters, tell me that Guido has not taken backseat to the Great Pumpkin!


    Halloween goblins scaring off Britain's Guy Fawkes
    Thu Nov 5, 2009 2:31pm EST
    By Catherine Bosley
    LONDON (Reuters Life!) - The modern-day ghouls and goblins of Halloween are steadily frightening off a British tradition that stretches back 400 years.
    The widely commercial attraction of Halloween trick or treating that is a mainstay of North American life is gaining popularity at the expense of Guy Fawkes celebrations, a night of bonfires and fireworks which commemorate a 1605 Catholic plot to blow up England's Parliament and bring down King James I.
    Traditionally, children made an effigy of "Gunpowder Plot" conspirator Guy Fawkes and paraded him down streets, asking passers-by to "spare a penny for the Guy." They would then use the money to buy fireworks and burn the effigy on a bonfire.
    Although British municipalities still hold large public fireworks displays, few people say they make effigies or light bonfires in their own gardens these days and are more likely to participate in Halloween festivities.
    "It's really shifted to Halloween from Guy Fawkes in the UK," said Robert Fisher, 56, taking a break near his office in central London. "Halloween has really taken off."
    As a child Fisher said he never went disguised as a pirate or goblin from house to house to beg for candy, as children in his neighborhood do today.
    "That was an American thing."
    Critics blame the shift on excessive municipal safety regulations and the commercial exploitation of Halloween.
    "It's much bigger than Guy Fawkes," Graham Gibbon, a solicitor, said of contemporary Halloween festivities.
    As a child he and his friends collected money for their Fawkes effigy, he said. His children, however, do not.
    Fisher, from London's East End who will light some fireworks for his five-year old daughter at the weekend, agreed that Guy Fawkes night had diminished in importance.
    "In my day, Guy Fawkes and Bonfire Night was a family affair," he said. "I still light the fireworks but we haven't invited anyone. We just have a little display."
    ORIGINS
    Both Guy Fawkes night and Halloween trace their roots to harvest festivals that took place across the northern hemisphere up until the 17th century, according to Stephen Sayers, a social psychologist from Leeds Metropolitan University.
    The term bonfire comes from "bone fire," when people burned the leftovers of their village feasts -- including animal carcasses, he said.
    "It just so happens that when Guy Fawkes did his thing, people were already lighting fires," Sayers said.
    Though observed in northern Britain and Scotland, U.S. films and television shows have helped raise the modern-day mass-market version of Halloween in the British consciousness.
    "We celebrated Halloween but it was in no way commercial," such as by bobbing for apples in a bucket of water, Gibbon said. "When I was a boy there was no trick or treating."
    This year, he and his wife had a Halloween party for their nine-year-old child.
    Daniel Lucht, a retail analyst with Verdict Research, said Halloween was proving a bonanza for stores.
    "In the last two years it has really taken off," he said. "For some players it's now the second-biggest occasion after Christmas."
    Sayers agreed Halloween was a boon to retailers with sales of costumes, candies, pumpkins and other paraphernalia.
    "Halloween is eminently marketable," he said. "With Guy Fawkes there's only so many things you can sell."
    PUBLIC SAFETY
    Injuries and deaths in the 1950s and 60s after children put firecrackers in mailboxes and played other pranks, prompted municipal authorities to rein in the Guy Fawkes festivities on safety grounds, Sayers said.
    "That had the effect of secularizing and sanitizing it." Because of the safety restrictions, "there's been a move away from Guy Fawkes," he said.
    As evidence of the heightened concern, at a rugby club in Devon, 2,000 people will gather around a screen with film footage of a fire, giant heaters and smoke machines because the local regulations made lighting a real bonfire difficult, the Telegraph newspaper reported.
    "It's changed. When I was younger, (Guy Fawkes) was a thing that you'd do with your friends. We would still be able to go and sneak into stores and buy fireworks.
    In Britain, fireworks can generally be purchased only by people over the age of 18.
    "It's quite sad, really," said Gibbon, sitting on a bench just paces from St. Paul's Cathedral. "We've become so protective."
    http://www.reuters.com/article/lifes...5A43XE20091105
    Last edited by HarborSpringsPiper; 5th November 09 at 11:43 PM. Reason: quote
    Ken

    "The best things written about the bagpipe are written on five lines of the great staff" - Pipe Major Donald MacLeod, MBE

  2. #2
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    They've really gone overboard with Halloween over here and I'm afraid that you're getting the spill-over.

    It sure is unbelievably commercially exploitable. It has become second only to Christmas in the amount of money that Americans spend on a holiday.

    We had several of the members of the Canberra City Planning staff over for lunch and a tour a few years back and they were flabbergasted at the extent to which we decorate for the holiday. It used to be a carved pumpkin/jack-o-lantern and maybe a few spooky paper decorations but now it's full fledged all out decorating of private homes with strings of orange and purple lights and animatronic figures. It's madness. I'm so sorry that the unique traditions of Guy Fawkes are getting swept aside by it.

    You'd think that after "V For Vendetta" there'd be renewed interest, wouldn't you?

    Best

    AA

  3. #3
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    We used to celebrate both in England even long ago, with one difference - no trick or treat. Halloween was just for costume parties, telling ghost stories, and so on. I remember the debates whether to have a halloween party or a Guy Fawkes party. Of course, you could combine both, with costumes and fireworks. I think that's the best idea.

    Well, two differences, really. We didn't have pumpkins. The Jack'o'lantern was a turnip, too small for a human skull really, but it looked much more like a death's head than a pumpkin does if you disregard the size. Much more difficult to carve, though. You wouldn't let a child carve it, as they might slip and cut themself.

  4. #4
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    The statement "nothern Britain and Scotland" doesn't make any real sense. Maybe she means throughout Scotland and in northern parts of England?
    And I think that sales of fireworks are set the the correct age. I've heard of all sorts of accidents every Guy Fawkes night - most of them conserning kids and teenagers.
    P.S. I say this as a teenager who can legally buy fireworks!
    It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

  5. #5
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    If you don’t mind my having a Friday breakfast of sarcasm…

    Political Correctness.
    Nanny State in its usual “safety” costume.
    Almighty Advertising.

    What’s not to like!

    Although on behalf of freedom and democracy, perhaps it’s not an entirely bad thing for the public at large to choose their own preferred observances/celebrations/holidays.
    [FONT="Georgia"][B][I]-- Larry B.[/I][/B][/FONT]

  6. #6
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    It is a very, very sad day when people forget their history.

    If you don't know where you have come from, how do you know where you are going?

    Regards

    Chas

  7. #7
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    I always enthusiastically took part in Guy Fawkes celebrations as a lad but fireworks were less controlled and considerably cheaper.

    Halloween products are less controlled and considerably cheaper now and more "hands on" for children than fireworks are. The trend is more for large scale displays where there is no "hands on" element.

    The numbers of family and neighbourhood bonfires seems to be well down on what they used to be.

    Perhaps it's partially our multi cultural and secular society too. The historical elements being more than other considerations.
    [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]Reverend Earl Trefor the Sublunary of Kesslington under Ox, Venerable Lord Trefor the Unhyphenated of Much Bottom, Sir Trefor the Corpulent of Leighton in the Bucket, Viscount Mcclef the Portable of Kirkby Overblow.

    Cymru, Yr Alban, Iwerddon, Cernyw, Ynys Manau a Lydaw am byth! Yng Nghiltiau Ynghyd!
    (Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Cornwall, Isle of Man and Brittany forever - united in the Kilts!)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

  8. #8
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    It's interesting, but I've seen the opposite happening with Halloween, sadly. I'm very very depressed to see that fewer people and children dress up, decorate, and celebrate it in my area. I won't get into details why because of forum rules, but I'm so incredibly happy to hear there are some areas that still go have fun with it. I was shocked to read about people who did mini-haunted houses (it used to be that way here when I was a kid) for the trick-or-treaters and had about 300 or more kids come through. Some people who didn't do that much decorating still had a ton of kids come to their door. The last good neighborhoods I lived in for kids to go door to door (for some reason kids don't trick-or-treat here or where my mother-in-law lives), we were lucky to get even 5 or 6
    http://www.cfgriffith.com/ - Learning to sew (historical costuming), and getting back to art by drawing fan art of Middle Earth dwarves.
    | D/FW TX Social Group | The Ladies of XMTS |

  9. #9
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    One of the five kids that came to our door was from next door and they are a Mexican family. He is three and just learning English and he keep saying "Trick or Tweet." Most of the Kids in my neighborhood are teenagers and they think they are to old for trick or treat but the boys like to go out and smash pumpkins from the back of pickup trucks. (Small Town tradition)

    MrBill
    Very Sir Lord MrBill the Essential of Happy Bottomshire
    Listen to kpcw.org

    Every other Saturday 1-4 PM

  10. #10
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    This makes me really sad. Especially considering that Guy Fawkes Night was such an important tradition for me growing up that I have a party and bonfire here every year to celebrate.

    I remember when I was a kid we still had a neighbourhood bonfire and all chipped in for the food and fireworks.
    The years before I left it was hard to find anyone doing this because most people went to the city bonfire.


    Last night we had a great party with bonfire toffee, baked potatoes, soup etc and all of the folk I invited loved it. Halloween was nothing to it.

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