Respected X-Markers

[Lachlan09]

Being an old and even possibly out of touch codger:-

My 15 year-old son wants to go to this summer’s Prom at the British School here in Muscat. He hasn’t been to one yet. He doesn’t want a kilt. So, there are gents’ outfitters here in Muscat but I suspect their Prêt-À-Porter may be ill-fitting and need various adjustments. So I think it is cheaper and more buyer-friendly to use one of the numerous Indian bespoke tailors here to get a MTM suit.

He has a definite overall look he wants to emulate which he calls James Bond (his hero) suit – it’s a black and white look, uncluttered and I agree is rather quietly elegant. Looking through the internet, the most likely suit will be Daniel Craig’s dinner suit, which “suits” this current age.

It’s a peaked-collar single-breasted DJ with one button front, ribbed satin- silk lapels (not too wide), matching silk-covered buttons (front and cuffs), horizontal jetted pockets, un-vented at rear. The jacket looks to have a jetted outside left-breast pocket and looks to be mildly waisted rather than box-style or waisted/flared.

Question – how many cuff buttons on each cuff and are they operating buttons/buttonholes ?

Question - I can’t tell if there’s a lapel button-hole. Would it be normal to have one ?
The trousers I think are flat-fronted (no inverted pleats) and have side fasteners in lieu of belt loops. I cannot tell if the fly opening would be vertical up to the waist-line fastening (fastened with wide metal hook and eye or a silk-covered button or have an extending waistband tab going to the right with wide metal hook and eye fastenings.

Question - What would be more normal ?
The trousers have vertical slit pockets.
Question – would they be jetted ?
Question – None, one or two internal rear pockets ? With jetting ? With flat closure buttons ?

The trousers also seem to have black ribbed satin-silk braid on each outer leg – not wide, not narrow ? How wide ?

Straight leg or slightly flared (I prefer straight) Width of leg bottoms ? Not too wide for my son, but not like a Teddy-Boy either. Maybe 17” you think ?

Length of trouser – I like resting on shoe but not “bumfled” as if too long. But not too short as in the famous old Glasgow “Ah see yir shoes are hae’in’ a pairty an’ they’re askin’ yir troozers doon !”

Leg bottoms – hemmed bottom edge or raw edge ?

Leg bottoms – straight cut front to back or sloping (slight front down to back for slip-ons and dress oxfords/ sloping down back to front for Chelsea/Beatle boots ?)

I guess shirts are a matter of taste but white dress shirt I think. Perhaps pleated front plastron or covered fly-front with stud buttons ? Wing or normal collar ? What would Bond do ?

Black bow-tie I believe.

Last but not least, cummerbund or no ? Would Bond wear one ?

…. and pocket kerchief – yes or no ? White or coloured ? Plain or patterned ?

The decisions you need to make when you’re an 00 !

What do you think chaps and chapesses ?

[Pleater]

This might be a bit old fashioned - but formal clothing often is. There are distinct fashons in the width of lapels and the trouser ribbon, so that those in the know, know.

With a satin or velvet lapel a flower 'buttonhole' would usually be placed in a holder, usually silver, and that has a pin or pins which slide into a couple of small loops sewn into the lapel.

I have shortened and reshaped the hem on that type of trouser.

The lower edge of the leg is shaped acording to the type of shoe to be worn, folded under to the correct length during the final fitting, trimmed if necessary, and then a tape sewn over the raw edge - that is, one side of the tape is sewn a little way from the edge of the fabric, then the other is sewn to make the hem. That way the fabric is only folded once.

I sewed the first seam on the machine and the second one by hand, so it was not visible.

A small piece of ribbon or tape is added at the back - only about 3 inches long, lower down than the first, to protect the material from wear by the heel of the shoe.

There were no rear pockets. The seat is usually quite fitted.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Anne has (as is usually the case) made all of the salient points. To which I would add:

1) Trust your tailor. He has probably made dinner suits before.
2) All of my tuxedos have back pockets-- only my evening suits (tails) are made without back pockets.
3) All of my tuxedos have a double vent in the back-- I find it makes the jacket much more comfortable when seated.
4) Coloured pocket squares are for day wear. Formal attire requires a white pocket square (with a spare hankie tucked into your back pocket).
5) Cummerbunds are optional; a three button waistcoat being equally appropriate (and in any colour one may fancy).
6) All of my formal jackets have a functioning button hole in the left lapel. (Here I am going to slightly disagree with Anne [sorry Anne] about boutonnieres: Unless one is a poncy Belgian private eye, with a name like "Hercules Porridge", a gentleman does not wear one of those little silver vases pinned to his lapel. He threads the stem of the flower through the button hole, and fastens it on the back of the lapel with either a pin, or it passes through a loop of thread (called a becket) or under a bit of tape, which holds it in place.)
7) Buttons on the sleeve should be functional, but it is considered poor taste to leave them un-buttoned (a gentleman doesn't show off).
8) A fold over collar is a better choice than a wing collar. With a wing collar the tie will ride up over the collar, something that won't happen with a fold over collar. It will also be more comfortable for someone not accustomed to wearing a heavily starched collar.
9) Shirt fronts are a matter of personal taste. I prefer a narrow pleated front with small black studs (black tie) and a stiff bosomed shirt with small gold studs (white tie).
10) Formal dress trousers are never cuffed; those worn with a dinner jacket have a single satin stripe (about 7/8 inch wide) over the outside seam. Those worn with tails have two narrow satin stripes (about 3/8 inch wide) on either side of the trouser seam.

And as an aside-- kids, especially at their first Prom can be really, really, rough on their clothes. Are you sure you wouldn't rather hire them for the evening?

[Bugbear]

Over at the Gentalman's Guide to Black Tie (I think that's what the site is called) they say there should be four buttons on the jacket cuff, unless they have changed that.

I did not go to a prom, so I have no idea what goes on there.

I would want a silk, real silk, pocket square, and I would prefer a full size one, so I could fold it the way I prefer, rather than a swatch on a card.

And, of course, real gentalmen tie their own bow ties.

Hope he has fun.

[Highland Logan]

I would want a silk, real silk, pocket square, and I would prefer a full size one, so I could fold it the way I prefer, rather than a swatch on a card.

And, of course, real gentalmen tie their own bow ties.

Good call Ted. And here is the link to the Black Tie Guide.

Frank

[Bugbear]

Thanks for posting the link; all the answers could probably be found there.

[Pleater]

Levels of formality and local custom play an important part in the details - and of course, if back pockets are added to the trousers, then the jacket requires vents.

Poirot's 'little vase' would have been fairly antique even at that time, a far plainer holder is the modern version. This is of course what is seen in UK and European countries, the US is a rule unto itself in matters sartorial. The holder usually contains a little water, sometimes held in a sponge, to keep the flower from wilting for as long as possible.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Bugbear]

Oh, right.. You would want a funtional lapel buttonhole, which would be at a slant bisecting the peak. Sometimes there is a small elastic loop on the back of the lapel, if I remember correctly, to hold the thing Pleater is talking about. That little plastic tube will, of course, also keep the flower from bleeding on your jacket.

The thought just came to me, that you could have some extra pockets put in the inside of the jacket; I always like those.

I think the side vents on most tuxes are not as long as on a regular jacket, but I don't know for sure.

I've also heard that the pocket welts should not be made of the same satin facing of the lapels, rather made of the jacket material; something about rental jackets being made that way. Again, I'm not too sure on that.

Hope that helps a little.
* Guess that's all I know.

[ccga3359]

I dislike the cut of suits/tuxedos for the last 30 years. Should I ever replace my suit now I'd go with styling that was the norm in the late 60's/early 70's. Tight fitting and pencil leged (stove pipe trousers). I've found this site when looking for Beatle boots. I used to wear side zip boots in the early 80's and really haven't found a decent pair in many a decade. I ordered a pair of Cavern boots with Cuban heels (in hindsight the regular heels would've been better an side zip for easier doffing). For me the Chesterfield suit is what I'd like in a suit and reminicient of James Bond (Connery years). Not exactly what you're looking for in Craig's Bond but is an option and very British with a Shea jacket to boot!

[Lachlan09]

Thanks everyone ! Your responses have been amazing and very, very helpful !

I'll let you know how it goes !

Thanks again !

BTW, should the trousers be half-lined ? Here in Oman, as June is hot, I thought perhaps not. But what do you think ?