Scotched !

[Lachlan09]

Hands up all those who hate being called Scotch ! Hands up all those who hate it and reply that Scotch is a drink !

There are still English people who call Scots “Scotch”. Americans of a non-Celtic origin no doubt still talk of “Scotch” and “Scotchmen”.

But how did it start ? My rough guess is that it started during the 17th Century when sorting out the finer points of the English language and perhaps ch was used in adjectives instead of sh. For sure, 2 Scottish regiments had Scotch in their titles in the second half of the 17th Century:- Dalyell’s or The Grey Regiment of Scotch Dragoons (later 2nd Dragoons) and The Earl of Mar’s Regiment of Scotch Fuzileers (later 21st Foot). During the 18th Century, after union with England and Wales to form Great Britain, members of the awakening Scottish Enlightenment ditched “Scottish” and even “Scotch” for a more unified title of “North British”. Consequently, for a while, the 2nd Dragoons became the 2nd Royal North British Dragoons and the 21st became the 21st Royal North British Fusiliers. The term “Scots” was substituted in early Victorian times. Of course, the name Scotch has become associated with the national drink and will always be so, though MacCallums uses the term Scots Whisky.

The Welsh people have had much the same to contend with, being called Welch when Scots were called Scotch. Two of their regiments were titled the (23rd) Royal Welch Fusiliers (which they have always kept) and the (41st) Welch Regiment (which was changed latterly to Welsh).

Can anyone shed light on when the term Scotch first appeared ?

[Jock Scot]

Yes my hand is up for the first two questions. Even after surviving for nearly three score years and ten(70) being called "Scotch" still rankles. As I understand it, Welch with the "C" is the old way of spelling Welsh, but I could be wrong. Where the word Scotch came from, I know not.

[PEEDYC]

My usual answer to being asked if I am Scotch is:- "About 40% of me is, depending on what I'm drinking, blended or malt, and the rest is Good SCOTS blood."

[Bugbear]

I was going to look it up in a dictionary of word origens, but someone with the OED aught to handle that.

I don't hear "Scotch" being used in place of "Scot," or "Scots," over here, except in the case of "Scotch-Irish."

Usually it is "Scottish."

My family had a celebration "Scotch-Irish Day," and it was a pun on the drinking. They don't drink anymore, so now "Scotch" is a double pun; they scotched the scotch. Just in case you come across my thread on that BECAUSE I didn't point out the pun too well, and I don't think it came across as I planned. Aye, "of mice and men."

[Coinneach]

My OED says "the contraction of Scottish into Scotch is not recorded before 1570 (in the compound Scotchman), though the colloquial pronunciation which it represents may well be much older; instances of Scotch cap, Scotch jig occur in 1591–99, but the adj. did not become common in literature until the second half of the 17th c. "

[macwilkin]

The Welsh people have had much the same to contend with, being called Welch when Scots were called Scotch. Two of their regiments were titled the (23rd) Royal Welch Fusiliers (which they have always kept) and the (41st) Welch Regiment (which was changed latterly to Welsh).

Actually, you believe Robert Graves, the 23rd preferred being called "Welch" instead of "Welsh". Graves felt that the spelling "disassociated us [The RWF] from the modern North Wales of chapels, liberalism, the dairy and drapery business, Lloyd George and the tourist trade." (Farwell, Mr. Kipling's Army, p. 34)

T.

[macwilkin]

I was going to look it up in a dictionary of word origens, but someone with the OED aught to handle that.

I don't hear "Scotch" being used in place of "Scot," or "Scots," over here, except in the case of "Scotch-Irish."

Usually it is "Scottish."

My family had a celebration "Scotch-Irish Day," and it was a pun on the drinking. They don't drink anymore, so now "Scotch" is a double pun; they scotched the scotch. Just in case you come across my thread on that BECAUSE I didn't point out the pun too well, and I don't think it came across as I planned. Aye, "of mice and men."

Ted,

The preferred term is "Scots-Irish" or "Ulster-Scots", although one of the best one-volume histories of the Ulster diaspora is "The Scotch-Irish" by James Leyburn.

T.

[Bugbear]

Oops, never mind.

[Bugbear]

Ted,

The preferred term is "Scots-Irish" or "Ulster-Scots", although one of the best one-volume histories of the Ulster diaspora is "The Scotch-Irish" by James Leyburn.

T.

Thanks. I'm wondering if I would notice much of a difference between "Scotch-Irish," and "Scots-Irish" if it were being spoken. I was thinking of what I here in conversation; not that I here the term very often.

[ChattanCat]

I've been called Scotch but wasn't prepared when someone asked if I was Swedish!