An Ionar or a Brat with a kilt? (Beag or mór)

[HeeHeeHeeHaw]

I always loved the idea of hyper traditional clothing but would it be acceptable to wear an Ionar or a Brat with a kilt

[Troglodyte]

If you are wanting to be hyper-traditional, then mixing ancient Irish with revival Highland Scottish is best avoided.

There are many who like to argue that the kilt is of Irish origin, and is indeed now worn by Ulster Scots and Irish regiments in the British Army (albeit in solid colour form, and not tartan), but contemporary writers and observers at the time note the differences in dress between the native Irish and the Highlanders and Islanders who went to fight in the Irish wars 500 years or so ago.

If you want to be authentic in the 'old way' of Highland dress, the only garment is the plaid - a three to four yard length of 'plaiding' that is wrapped around the body in which ever way suits the wearer at the time. Alternatively, the belted-plaid form of kilt is historically correct if you want to replicate Highland style between 1500-1700 or thereabouts.

If your Highland (that is, Scottish) outfit is of a style from the past two hundred years, you may swap the plaid for an Inverness cape, which is worn in place of an overcoat. You regularly see pipe-bands dressed in rain-proof versions of this.

I would suggest that if you are going in for authentic costume reproduction and wearing, it is best that you stick to one style and avoid mixing different elements from vastly different eras and cultures.

My guess is that you want to put together a faithful and authentic outfit, but what you are suggesting is rather along the lines of wearing a tricorn hat with a Tom Mix-style Wild West outfit. To those who know, you would look just as ridiculous.

Why not have both authenic Irish and Scottish Highland, and keep them separate..?

[HeeHeeHeeHaw]

Thank you I was asking for an opinion as I am new to this forum and relatively new to kilt wearing so I did not know, however are there any highly traditional Irish garments acceptable without wearing a full blown léine and instead a more moderate kilt?

[Damion]

Irish never wore the kilt/plaid as far as I'm aware. The kilt seems to have become popular in Scotland around the time the two kingdoms were being separated by the English. That the kilt doesn't appear in Ireland would suggest it has some origin in the east or centre of Scotland (as the Western Isles and nearest parts of the mainland retained close ties to Ireland) but why is anyone's guess.

The ionar fills a similar position to the cota gearr which was likely influenced by it. Stylistically I think the ionar and kilt would go together but you mentioned wanting to be traditional so obviously the two were not worn together.

Also the ionar was typically worn over the leine croich which was the main garment. The cota gearr is likewise worn over the leine but this leine is not the main garment but a basic shirt with the main garment being the plaide worn over the cota gearr.

That's for the original highland attire, as Troglodyte mentions, modern highland attire is different again being heavily based on development within the British Army during the 19th century.

[OC Richard]

There are many modes of kiltwearing with different purposes.

The Highland Dress that had evolved by around 1930 is still current, and having an unbroken chain of evolution going back to Highland Dress' unknown origins, is what's known as "Traditional" Highland Dress.

It's modern clothing, not a costume, and not historical. It's simply the Highland equivalent of ordinary modern mens suits and blazer + trouser outfits.

To very quickly summarise what we know about Highland Dress, the unbroken chain would look something like this

earliest 17th and 18th century images > 1822 Royal visit > Victorian images > Edwardian > Great Wars period > today.

Highland Dress was different in each of these periods, but continued evolving, with things coming into and falling out of fashion, until around 1930.

What about not wanting to wear the modern current just-clothing Highland Dress, and instead going back along that evolutionary chain and picking out, say, 18th century Highland Dress or Edwardian Highland Dress?

Then it's no longer just-clothing, but a historical costume.

There are valid reasons for that, for example if you want to attend a Renaissance Faire and look period, or you're acting in a historical play or film, or attending a "Dickens Ball" or "Victorian Ball", or doing historical re-enacting.

For me such costumes look great as long as attention is paid to "getting it right" and not mixing different time-periods or indeed different cultures.

We just don't know what Renaissance-era Highland Dress looked like. All we can do is project back from our earliest images from the late 17th and early 18th century.

The traditional Irish costume (leine, ionar, and brat) went entirely extinct and today is a purely historical costume.

It's valid to dress in that costume if your purpose is to dress in Pre-Invasion ancient Irish costume.

There's no evidence that a blend of 17th century Highland costume and Pre-Invasion Irish costume existed. It could have, but then again many other things we have no evidence of could have existed too (the "space aliens" argument).