Question about an old post

**Sean Wilson** · 8th March 16, 03:51 PM

I recently came across a post by Tobus which raised the same question about my own kilt I purchased from a supplier in Scotland.

http://Www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...k-period-70205

After following the advice given by Steve Aston I was shocked to find out that my kilt, a 16oz machine stitched kilt made from tartan from Lochcarron mills, which fits me really well, has neither a stabalizer under the lining nor the pleats cut out.

I have made my first kilt following Barbara's book so am able to put this problem right. However here is my question... if I cut out the pleats before fitting a stabalizser the kilt will not be as snug, and maybe a little too large as the straps are currently at their tightest. I could of course move the buckles but If i fitted the stabalizer without cuting out the pleats will this still be effective I. E stopping the tartan from streaching?

I assume, it will work. Am I right?

**Liam** · 8th March 16, 04:18 PM

My first thought is that although made with 16 oz. material, your kilt is a 4-5 yarder. These generally don't have cut out pleats or stabilizer. The kilt makers her can provide more insight.
Cheers....

**Mike S** · 8th March 16, 05:59 PM

Liam is correct. Without the pleat cutouts in the fell area as found on the fully traditional 8 yard kilts, there isn't the need for the internal stabilizing structure. A liner is usually all one finds in this type of semi-traditional construction.

**The Wizard of BC** · 8th March 16, 06:12 PM

OK, here is my take on this question.

It all depends on if your kilt is stretching or not.

Kilt wool is a very weak fabric. It distorts very easily under even light stress. Just grab your own apron at any two points and pull. You will see the distortion in the Tartan pattern.
The whole reason for stabilizer is to resist that distortion of the fabric or having the stress of strapping the kilt on transferred to the Fell stitching.

(The interfacing is to add vertical stability and form to the garment. Think the boning in a corset.)

If you can grab the two buckles on the back of your kilt and if you see any stretch when you pull - your kilt could be improved by adding stabilizer.

And I would like to add from my own experience here - If you can see any distortion in your front apron where your straps are attached, your kilt could be improved by extending the stabilizer all the way from strap to strap.

When making a hand sewn kilt we cut away the excess fabric behind the Fell before we add the stabilizer and interfacings. So yes, it can be done in the same order as a re-build or as an after market improvement.

And I'm sorry but I don't agree with a blanket statement "that a kilt that is not cut away does not need a stabilizer". It all depends on if there is stretch or distortion to the fabric when the kilt is worn.

In my Contemporary kilts a stabilizer is not seen. I often do not cut away the fabric behind the Fell and there is often no liner. But the stabilizer is still there. In fact this is the proper definition of a Contemporary kilt. A kilt that has the full stabilizer and interfacing of a full kilt but - One that may be made, from the ground up, for the waist to worn at other than full rise - One that may be made from something other than wool Tartan - One that can have pockets incorporated into the design - And finally one that can be fully or partially machine sewn.
Notice that I say 'may' and 'can'. I have made fully hand-stitched kilts out of premium 16oz wool Tartan that are Contemporary Style Kilts. My USMC Dress Blue Kilt is like this.

A casual kilt is not a Contemporary kilt. A 5 yard kilt can be made with full stabilizer and interfacing. The reason to use only 5 yards is to save some money in the amount of fabric. The problem is that very few 5 yarders are made this way. If you think about it, saving a couple dollars by buying 2.5 yards vs 4 yards of double width fabric only saves about 1/6 of the total kilt cost.
Where the real cost savings is - is in the labor. A standard 5 yard kilt can be made in just a few hours and you don't need a skilled kiltmaker in many cases.

**Sean Wilson** · 9th March 16, 01:21 AM

Thank you guys and as always especially Steve.

I measured along the selvedge and it's 7 yards 2 inch. When pulled at the buckles as per Steve earlier post, the pleats give almost a full inch and the material pulls when the same test is done to the straps. So in my opinion ion they have cut out the internal structure to save time at the cost of a future customer!

Thanks for the advice, Steve. I'll not cut out the pleats but fit a stabalizer and reposition the straps to be attached to the interfacing....

**The Wizard of BC** · 9th March 16, 02:26 AM

Sean, just a note if you don't mind.

The buckle tabs are not attached to the interfacing. The tabs are sewn through the outer Tartan fabric, through the interfacing, and fastened to the stabilizer.

It is the stabilizer that gives the kilt its horizontal strength. The interfacing gives the garment vertical stiffness and shape.

The reason we cut away the pleats behind the Fell is to reduce the amount of fabric in the area of the back where we sweat. This bulk is often seen on less expensive kilts and is nicknamed 'pillow butt'.

All of these things work in harmony. They are the hallmarks of a Traditional Style Kilt. There are valid reason we do them. There have been many, very smart, talented kiltmakers over the years who have worked out what a kilt needs to fit well, swish marvelously, and to last a lifetime. The true value of ToAK is that you have at your fingertips the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of all of those who have gone before. Learn from their experience. If there is one thing I have taken away from Barb it is that, in the long run, doing it right, is less expensive than cutting a corner trying to save a dollar or an hours work up front.

All of those other things that we talk about, and give the impression are so important, like how much fabric is used, the weight of fabric or how it is stitched, are minor points of aesthetics.

**Sean Wilson** · 9th March 16, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

Sean, just a note if you don't mind.

The buckle tabs are not attached to the interfacing. The tabs are sewn through the outer Tartan fabric, through the interfacing, and fastened to the stabilizer.

It is the stabilizer that gives the kilt its horizontal strength. The interfacing gives the garment vertical stiffness and shape.

The reason we cut away the pleats behind the Fell is to reduce the amount of fabric in the area of the back where we sweat. This bulk is often seen on less expensive kilts and is nicknamed 'pillow butt'.

All of these things work in harmony. They are the hallmarks of a Traditional Style Kilt. There are valid reason we do them. There have been many, very smart, talented kiltmakers over the years who have worked out what a kilt needs to fit well, swish marvelously, and to last a lifetime. The true value of ToAK is that you have at your fingertips the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of all of those who have gone before. Learn from their experience. If there is one thing I have taken away from Barb it is that, in the long run, doing it right, is less expensive than cutting a corner trying to save a dollar or an hours work up front.

All of those other things that we talk about, and give the impression are so important, like how much fabric is used, the weight of fabric or how it is stitched, are minor points of aesthetics.

Thanks for the coprehensive reply... as ever very insightfull. I get what you say and agree although I maybe didn't explain myself very well on the last post. Yes, the tabs that hold the buckle are attached through all layers including the stabalizer. The sentence about the interfacing was directed at the leather straps attached to each apron. On my purchased kilt these are only sewn to the tartan and not to the tartan and interfacing on the aprons.

**Sean Wilson** · 9th March 16, 01:03 PM

Steve, can I quickly ask... if I do not remove the three leather straps Anchored to the tartan only and not through tartan and inerfacing material across the two aprons will the material distort with wear or am I ok to leave them well alone?

I don't want to remove and resecure them if this is not necessary. I definately need to put in a stabalizer across the rear pleats as discussed in the earlier post.