Question about thread counts

[saharris]

I have just begun teaching myself how to “read” thread counts, and I have encountered a question that I hope someone here will be able to answer.

From what I have read online, the overwhelming majority of tartans are designed to be symmetrical. To my understanding, this means that a thread count of (very much simplified) “A-B-C-D-E-F” would then be reversed “E-D-C-B-A” and then repeated “B-C-D-E-F” and so on and so forth.

The rare tartans that are described as nonsymmetrical do not have the revered part; so that “A-B-C-D-E-F” would be followed immediately by “A-B-C-D-E-F”.

However, I have seen a fair number of tartans that are listed as nonsymmetrical with a thread count of “A-B-C-D-E-F-E-D-C-B”, which would be the exact same thing as a symmetrical thread count of “A-B-C-D-E-F”.

So my question is: What the heck am I missing here? Are there really two acceptable ways, symmetrical and nonsymmetrical, to describe the same tartan?

Also, while I have you here: Is there any convention about which stripe is considered “A” or is it completely the random choice of the tartan designer?

[RockyR]

A is the pivot point... usually a single stripe.

Not sure on the other stuff as I was under the impression that abcd/abcd/abcd was Asymmetrical (Maple Leaf, Buchanan, Stewart Hunting to name a few) and abcdefedcbabcdef was symmetrical.

There are 'ABAC' tartans like black watch where certain elements get repeated MORE than once in a sett (the green with the black line running down the center). Is that what screwed you up?

[saharris]

...I was under the impression that abcd/abcd/abcd was Asymmetrical (Maple Leaf, Buchanan, Stewart Hunting to name a few) and abcdefedcbabcdef was symmetrical.

Exactly! But what I'm seeing is abcdefedcbabcdef described as abcdefedcb/abcdefedcb instead of simply abcdef

If that makes any sense...

[RockyR]

as long as the end result is the same, then it's fine.

It also MAY depend on which tartan generator program you work with... I've seen one where you put in the code as 'ABCDEF' and select 'Symmetrical' and it does the work FOR you to make it ABCDEFEDCBABCD.... If you select ASYMMETRICAL, it makes it ABCDEFABCDEFABCDEF...

Other generators, you have to write it out to one FULL pivot.

Maybe Matt can chime in here...

[saharris]

I have been PMed for a “real world” example for clarification…

Our XMTS tartan is registered with the tread count:
W12 DB64 N6 DB6 N2 DB6 N4 B8 DB2 Y4 DB2 B8 N4 DB6 N2 DB6 N6 DB64 (asymmetrical)

According to what I’ve read, that is EXACTLY the same thing as:
W12 DB64 N6 DB6 N2 DB6 N4 B8 DB2 Y4 (symmetrical)

Since the great majority of tartans are listed as symmetrical; is there a reason that an otherwise symmetrical tartan would be registered as if it were asymmetrical? I feel I must be missing something.

[RockyR]

It's NOT Asymmetrical. The XMTS Tartan is Symmetrical. When it was registered, it was listed with the FULL thread count from the first pivot all the way back to that pivot. Most tartans (XMTS included) have 2 pivots... MEANING, if you put a mirror on certain lines, you'll get the exact same thing on both sides.

The 2 pivots for this tartan are the WHITE line and the YELLOW line.