Attention MacLaren clan members and Boyscouts!

[RockyR]

Attention all MacLaren clan members and Boyscouts of America! The MacLaren tartan is now available in our Casual Kilt and Semi Traditional kilt models. Why are we announcing this to Boyscouts? The MacLaren tartan is the unofficial tartan of the BSA.



While the tartan isn't pictured on our website yet, it IS live in the dropdown selections, so if you want to order one, you can do so directly on our site.

[Aussie_Don]

Hi,

And the reason that MacLaren is associated with scouting is
that Gillwell Park, in the London area, was given to the
British Scout Association by Scout Commissioner
William de Bois Maclaren (Links from Wikipedia) for use
by Lord Baden-Powell initially to train leaders. As a result,
every leader awarded the "Woodbadge" (lots more historical
stuff could be said about the symbols -- but not relevant here)
gets a neckerchief with a patch of MacLaren tartan on the
back.

So, I'd probably argue that MacLaren in scouting should be
associated with the Woodbadge. I used to wear a 1/4 yd
piece of light MacLaren tartan as a cold weather scarf.

I grew up in the US, Pennsylvania to be precise. Got my
Eagle and Woodbadge in the US before moving here.

-Don

[O'Callaghan]

MacLaren is the OFFICIAL Scout tartan and is NOT limited to Wood Badge holders, although the rule (below) only refers to 'Scout Tartan' but means MacLaren.

Americans get totally confused on the issue because, apart from the square of MacLaren tartan on the Wood Badge scarf, the BSA don't approve it as uniform, because they don't allow kilts as uniform (with the possible exception of Venture Scouts selecting their own uniform). Wood Badge, however, is international.

The Scout Association, however, allow kilts as long as you comply with POR 10.18 (below). As one of Irish descent I could wear a Saffron kilt if I were still a scout and still lived in England, but I'd have to be of Scottish descent (or live in Scotland) to wear a MacLaren kilt, NOT necessarily a Wood Badge holder. If you don't know the difference between England and Britain, don't bother to try to figure it out.

OTOH, any Scout living in the Colonies, or anywhere else, is perfectly entitled to wear a kilt in MacLaren tartan when not in uniform, and Wood Badge is definitely NOT a prerequisite.


Rule 10.18 The Kilt & Pleated Tartan Skirts
a.
Kilts an
d pleated tartan skirts may be worn as part of the appropriate uniform, subject to the following
colour:
The Scout Association
-
Policy Organisation and Rules
–
April
2013
Chapter 10 Page
7

in Scotland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the tartan kilt of any
tartan;

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent
to wear tartan may wear the kilt;

in Scotland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a pleated tartan skirt of
any tartan;

elsewhere, female Members who are entitled to wear tartan may wear a pleated tartan skirt;

outside Scotland, whe
re Members are entitled to wear tartan, male holders of appointments may
wear the kilt of their own or Scout tartan and female holders of appointments may wear a pleated
tartan skirt of their own or Scout tartan;

in Northern Ireland, male Members who are e
ntitled to wear uniform may wear the saffron kilt;

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to do so may wear the saffron kilt;

in Northern Ireland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a saffron pleated
skirt;

Elsewhere, fem
ale Members who are entitled by descent to wear saffron may wear a saffron
pleated skirt;

Outside Northern Ireland, where Members are entitled to wear saffron, male holders of
appointments may wear a saffron kilt and female holders of appointments may we
ar a pleated
saffron skirt.
b.
The following items are correct wear with the tartan kilt: plain leather sporran, plain lovat green knee
length socks and green garter tabs, black shoes, outer jacket tailored for wear with the kilt (optional).
c.
The following ite
ms are correct wear with the saffron kilt: plain leather sporran, plain knee length
socks of a traditional colour (eg, green, fawn or white), black or brown shoes, outer jacket tailored for
wear with the kilt (optional).
d.
Where a Section is wearing saffron,
the sock and shoe colours must be the same for the whole
Section. This decision is to be taken by the Section Leader after consensus has been sought.

[Hopper250]

I think you are both correct, since Webelos in the US wear the tartan neckerchief, and many Woodbadge holders have the same tartan on theirs. Some of the older Woodbadge neckers have a different tartan, but it is mainly which color is dominant. There is also record of scouts wearing kilts in the first years with Baden-Powell (seen in photos), and though its hard to tell if they are all in the same tartan or not.

[Aussie_Don]

MacLaren is the OFFICIAL Scout tartan and is NOT limited to Wood Badge holders, although the rule (below) only refers to 'Scout Tartan' but means MacLaren.

Americans get totally confused on the issue because, apart from the square of MacLaren tartan on the Wood Badge scarf, the BSA don't approve it as uniform, because they don't allow kilts as uniform (with the possible exception of Venture Scouts selecting their own uniform). Wood Badge, however, is international.

Well, sorta, mostly.... I arrived in Victoria with Wood Badge and
experience in training leaders from the US. AThe local attitude
was, "You can wear the beads, but they don't mean anything here
unless you do our course." I thought this a bit odd, having been told
that "Wood Badge is the only internationally recognised thing in
Scouting."

The Scout Association, however, allow kilts as long as you comply with POR 10.18 (below). As one of Irish descent I could wear a Saffron kilt if I were still a scout and still lived in England, but I'd have to be of Scottish descent (or live in Scotland) to wear a MacLaren kilt, NOT necessarily a Wood Badge holder. If you don't know the difference between England and Britain, don't bother to try to figure it out.

As far as the tartan is concerned, of course anyone
can wear any tartan -- this is a given. Just pointing
out that those who are Wood Badge would likely
feel a particular affinity with MacLaren, even in
"The Colonies".

OTOH, any Scout living in the Colonies, or anywhere else, is perfectly entitled to wear a kilt in MacLaren tartan when not in uniform, and Wood Badge is definitely NOT a prerequisite.

Being in the Colonies both before (in the US --
though I'd suggest ducking for cover on that one)
and now in OZ. I'd politely suggest that, while the
British Scout Association has a lot to say in the UK,
other associations might take some exception to
decisions from the UK. (Though every time I buy
something in Australia where some company has set
up an exclusive distributor, I'm reminded that I am
in "the colonies".)

Rule 10.18 The Kilt & Pleated Tartan Skirts
a.
Kilts and pleated tartan skirts may be worn as part of the appropriate uniform, subject to the following
colour: The Scout Association
-
Policy Organisation and Rules
–
April
2013
Chapter 10 Page
7

in Scotland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the tartan kilt of any
tartan;

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to wear tartan may wear the kilt;

in Scotland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a pleated tartan skirt of
any tartan;

elsewhere, female Members who are entitled to wear tartan may wear a pleated tartan skirt;

outside Scotland, where Members are entitled to wear tartan, male holders of appointments may
wear the kilt of their own or Scout tartan and female holders of appointments may wear a pleated
tartan skirt of their own or Scout tartan;

in Northern Ireland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the saffron kilt;

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to do so may wear the saffron kilt;

in Northern Ireland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a saffron pleated
skirt;

Elsewhere, female Members who are entitled by descent to wear saffron may wear a saffron
pleated skirt;

Outside Northern Ireland, where Members are entitled to wear saffron, male holders of
appointments may wear a saffron kilt and female holders of appointments may we
ar a pleated saffron skirt.
b.
The following items are correct wear with the tartan kilt: plain leather sporran, plain lovat green knee
length socks and green garter tabs, black shoes, outer jacket tailored for wear with the kilt (optional).
c.
The following items are correct wear with the saffron kilt: plain leather sporran, plain knee length
socks of a traditional colour (eg, green, fawn or white), black or brown shoes, outer jacket tailored for
wear with the kilt (optional).
d.
Where a Section is wearing saffron, the sock and shoe colours must be the same for the whole
Section. This decision is to be taken by the Section Leader after consensus has been sought.

The rules are most interesting, though. If I ever get to another Jamboree
I'll keep an eye out for British Scouts and their uniforming.

It is interesting to hear about the change to the Webelos uniform. As I was
getting ready to leave the US in the early 80s the role of the Webelos was
definitely in transition. Sounds as if they are almost a separate unit, now.

Best wishes to both of you and a left hand handshake.

-Don (Wood Badge US-NE-V-27)

[TheOfficialBren]

:slight derail:
Goodness!
Now if only Shaw were available inP/V...


Congratulations to the Boy Scouts and our MacLaren members. It's a lovely tartan.

[Sir William]

Well, sorta, mostly.... I arrived in Victoria with Wood Badge and
experience in training leaders from the US. The local attitude
was, "You can wear the beads, but they don't mean anything here
unless you do our course." I thought this a bit odd, having been told
that "Wood Badge is the only internationally recognised thing in
Scouting."

-Don (Wood Badge US-NE-V-27)

I've encountered much the same attitude here in the US, even to the point that unless you've done WB in that particular Council it's not as valid. Granted, the detailed content of the course varies according to the actual program it is designed for, but I find this a very silly attitude by members of a worldwide organization.

[Kiltboy]

Thank you Rocky. I have a few Scouting friends who have been asking about that exact tartan. I'll point them your way.

[MichaelPHahn]

I have been wearing my USAKilts MacLaren to scouting events for a couple of years now, starting with my Wood Badge Beading Ceremony. I just recently wore it around summer camp at Camp Constantin (Possum Kingdom Lake, in N. Texas, USA). It was unseasonably cool (highs of 95 F).

Rocky I love the kilt and very much recommend your skills to anyone!!!

I wore it to dinner – a Class A Uniform event for our troop. I also wore it all day one day (July 4) in place of my normal shorts. That was the first time I have done that. It was a great experience and it won’t be the last time. I became known as "The Kilt Guy". I had people asking questions and giving complements for several days thereafter.



Hope the link works. It has been some time since I posted pictures.

BTW, my favorite quote of the week was from a scout riding by on a bicycle yelling "I like your skilt!" Many scouters commented on wishing that they had one to wear.

[eaglemo]

Greetings,
Well, I have been in the BSA for over 50 years, held many positions and have scouted in Canada and the UK. I served on 10 Wood Badge staffs and was Course Director of SR-593. I am also a life member of Clan MacLaren and wear my MacLaren Kilt as my Class A uniform to most events. I am currently a member of North Florida Council, but have also been a member of Heart of Virginia Council (old Robert E. Lee Council) and the Baltimore Area Council. I have worn the MacLaren kilt to many events in all councils and we have a group of scouters in Florida who wear the kilt regularly to scout functions and highland games. All have been accepted with open arms! Also, as info, MacLaren didn't give the Scouting Association Gilwell Park, he gave them 7,000 pounds sterling to buy it and 5,000 more to fix it up...this was in 1919!