Stag handled Dirk-Progress

**Mark E.** · 10th October 11, 10:18 AM

Greetings all...It has been a while since I posted on this project (couldn't find the original thread)...I have made a bit of progress on my "downhill without breaks" stag handle dirk and roe deer handle by-pieces project.

The main dirk blade is permanently mounted into the grip-tang is 3/4" tapered to 3/8", with about 1" of threaded end to recieve the nut. I was forced to countersink a 1" long nut INTO the steel pommel cap, but it worked. Peined and ground flush, then re-peined...it's solid. I used two allen head bolts threaded into the crown to hold the pommel position, too. I am working on test pieces to figure out hot soldering-I am going to fill the fuller gaps (and guard gaps) at the entry of blade to guard with solder, once I figure it out. Original thought was to braze, but the stabilizer material I used inside of the antler is only rated for around 600 degrees F...Brazing requires more heat-that, and I did not want to wreck the temper of the blade. It's looking like one of those blades of convienence...not exactly pretty, but very durable.

The fork pictured is one of a pair I picked up trolling antique shops. From 1750's, I figured it would be as close as I could come to a good original, and given the shape of this one's handle, I have no problem dismantleing and mounting into the roe deer antler shown.

The assembled spoon is a test model-combo copper pipe and one antler from a deer I hit with my Jeep. Oh, and a bit of sinew-ran into an issue using a wide kerf saw blade. For the dirk by-spoon, it will be a brass bowl and a jewler's saw inlet (that copper gets HOT when eating oatmeal and soup!).

Also, does anyone here know a smith that could bang out a real steel sword scabbard throat with locket and tip? Given the dirk above is intended to appear to be made of a broken backsword, I was hoping to be able to have a scabbard that resembles an equally altered scabbard of the same era. Might be a year before I am in scabbard mode, so....

**Ryan Ross** · 10th October 11, 10:53 AM

That's not a dirk- It's a shortsword! Yeesh...

Looks awesome, though. It'll be a piece to be proud of, for sure. Love the look of that fork you found, too.

**Harold Cannon** · 10th October 11, 11:08 AM

Thats a BIG BOY DIRK!!!! Would probably look good on me! LOL!!!

**Mark E.** · 10th October 11, 11:10 AM

Yes, it is more akin to a shortsword...The schematic I provided the smith with was based on recovered backswords...and the proportions ended up thusly. The tolerance ("ish") factor sorta got away from him, anyway. Given my historical position (ghillie/huntsman), it likely would have been the only "swordy" think I would have been able to afford-and works well for dispatch and joint cutting of mid to bigger game, so would be more useful than 3' of steel for one intent.

Here is the scabbard hanger system I have devised-it allows me to pivot the knife into a horizontal position, for sitting or horseback riding. It is at the present hangering my current dirk...a more refined variety will be forthcoming for the stag whopper. Fits well with my 3.5" wide doubled 12 ounce or so kilt belt...

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/m...-frog-back.jpg

**Mark E.** · 10th October 11, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Harold Cannon

Thats a BIG BOY DIRK!!!! Would probably look good on me! LOL!!!

Nahhhhh...I'm 6'-3" and trying for 215 lbs...Those tiny dirks look funny when you have 38" leg to balance...

And No, it ain't for sale.

Visit me funeral, you may be able to slip it off of my person though, once I'm done

I don't believe we have met-have you met my other junk? Full badger sporran, 3.5" ish wide kilt belt, 12 ounce baldric? I don't cut corners on much...The links below may give you some ideas if you aren't an "off the shelf" sort.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...khanger-60514/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...sporran-60549/

**Harold Cannon** · 10th October 11, 11:38 AM

Me either I make most of my own stuff as well. It is the only way you can truly get what you want. Plus being a big guy I can make it proportional to me. This makes it look a lot better!

**Mark E.** · 10th October 11, 03:09 PM

Ok, couldn't resist the urge...So now back from my little shop of horrors...Voila!

First pic is tools of the trade...Second pic is of the new roe deer handled 1750 fork, alongside the other 1750 fork I picked up (in remarkable shape for its age), and a poor modern rendition of a by-fork (not by me!). Third pic is a side view. Third pic is a back view. I got a little pin happy-two coulda done it. The pins are 100 year old nails from the house I was raised in...taking a bit of my history with me in whatever I make...The last shot is of the backside.

I haven't quite figured out what to do with the knob of skull above the crown-something leftover after I removed the rest of his head...to carve or to create a lanyard loop for a quick keeper...choices, choices

**Dale Seago** · 10th October 11, 03:53 PM

Totally mouth-watering pieces!

As a historical side-question, does anyone know (seen photos or actual pieces) of any dirks with antler handles of that type actually existing before the 19th century?

**Mark E.** · 10th October 11, 03:58 PM

As far as dirks with antler handles pre-1800...I have only seen one, a shorter bladed version with an Andrea Ferara mark purportadly from around 1690-1720. This was in Halifax Bay, Canada. I do not know if the handle was the original. The guard was wiggly but the tang nut tight-which said to me they could have chopped the tang pein off after the original grip split, and the taper in the blade did not allow for the original guard fit. It had been used in a serious fashion, too-blade had been hacked and bashed pretty good.

In Germany, I have seen stag handled short swords/hunting swords, along with tine handled eating and hunting knives, in trouses from the 15th century, along with some that would have found place at a table. Limited to knives and forks of a definate personal nature. In Romania, as well-hunting swords and some utility knives. It would make sense as an alternative. My reasoning was that if I were a huntsman/ghillie, my access to antler as a raw material would have been greater than others...and stronger than wood for its proportions and application. That, combined with my inability to whittle any decent interlace on a handle but not wanting to have a slick grip...the stag is a good rough bit.

**Dale Seago** · 10th October 11, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mark E.

In Germany, I have seen tine handled eating pieces, in trouses from the 15th century, along with some that would have found place at a table. Limited to knives and forks of a definate personal nature. In Romania, as well-but of a size that would have indicated serving utinsels. Bone handles were quite common, both in England as well as the rest of western Europe-if pewter casting was not readily available, it would make sense as an alternative. My reasoning was that if I were a huntsman/ghillie, my access to antler as a raw material would have been greater than others...and stronger than wood for its proportions and application.

Oh, absolutely!

I'm just thinking about the supposed Scottish tradition of antler-handled dirks being "daywear" items. I rather doubt that such were used in Scotland during what we often think of as the "Jacobite era" as I've seen plenty of dirk handles from that period in wood, brass, bone, and pewter. . .but never antler. I suspect this particular tradition is no older than the sgian dubh, and is likely a more recent development even than that.