Mikes Toeboard Drills

[Alan H]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD3zFC1M_Yo

[Dave Ogilbee]

Looks like a good set of drills Alan. Need to work the crank and hip leading more, myself. I'll give em a go next time I head out. Are you not worried so much about stepping over the trig when you're doing these drills?

[Alan H]

Looks like a good set of drills Alan. Need to work the crank and hip leading more, myself. I'll give em a go next time I head out. Are you not worried so much about stepping over the trig when you're doing these drills?

You can't do exclusively step-over drills, because you don't want to train yourself to step over. It's a balance. This is by NO means a sampling of all the stones drills and throwing that I do. The majority of it does not include step-overs.

[Arizona Scot]

Great video Alan will deffinately incorporate this into my work outs. Oh by the way thanks for hooking me up with some SoCal throwers. I made facebook connection with them and am waiting for some e-mails.

[Dave Ogilbee]

You can't do exclusively step-over drills, because you don't want to train yourself to step over. It's a balance. This is by NO means a sampling of all the stones drills and throwing that I do. The majority of it does not include step-overs.

Ah, i've gotcha. Was just wondering because I always try my best not to overstep whenever I'm practicing.

[Alan H]

Ah, i've gotcha. Was just wondering because I always try my best not to overstep whenever I'm practicing.

See, the thing is that in Stones, you want to drive the stone out over, beyond the trig. If you cut yourself off, you lose a LOT of distance. You MUST hold on to the stone as long as you possibly can. So the way to internalize part of that motion is to do step-over drills. Make yourself hold on so long that you HAVE to step over. All the big shotputters do them, Brian Oldfield was famous for them.

Here's one of Ryan Viera's stone workouts...the front end of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65cP4...eature=related

Notice that he does step-over drills.

I also do drop-and-pops, I do both step-over and non-step-over drills with my slowly developing glide/shuffle. My next weeks stones is going to be concentrating on actively, rather than passively clearing my upper body, and exaggerating the "stomp"-block of the left side to bring my hips around more quickly. All of these will be done without step-overs.

[Dave Ogilbee]

Ah, I see. Ya, i've watched all of Ryan's training vids, I remember that one now. When he was instructing me on my technique he was explaining that getting that weight put over your back foot is pretty critical, and then one powerful motion out, shooting through that back foot. My big problem was getting used to putting all that weight back there. Single leg strength has never been that great with me, so I've been working more single leg stuff into my strength training.
I also asked him about the shuffle, as i'm getting better distance using that rather than attempting a traditional spin, mostly because i'm still fairly novice at it and getting used to the motions. He said he thinks it's best to try to use a spin if possible just because that's supposed to be greatest means of power production for the throw. But I do know there are a few athletes out there, even at the Olympic caliber, that use a shuffle. Have any thoughts on it?

[Detroitpete]

Ah, I see. Ya, i've watched all of Ryan's training vids, I remember that one now. When he was instructing me on my technique he was explaining that getting that weight put over your back foot is pretty critical, and then one powerful motion out, shooting through that back foot. My big problem was getting used to putting all that weight back there. Single leg strength has never been that great with me, so I've been working more single leg stuff into my strength training.
I also asked him about the shuffle, as i'm getting better distance using that rather than attempting a traditional spin, mostly because i'm still fairly novice at it and getting used to the motions. He said he thinks it's best to try to use a spin if possible just because that's supposed to be greatest means of power production for the throw. But I do know there are a few athletes out there, even at the Olympic caliber, that use a shuffle. Have any thoughts on it?

Spin vs. shuffle/glide:

I've done them both. A good spin technique takes time to develop, but once you get it, after the first turn, it just feels like you're 'uncoiling' and if you stay fluid form breaks appear in those places of transition.

A glide in my opinon works better for me, but was actually HARDER to develop. It seems to me that there are just more places for form breaks to occur. Again, to feel 'right' there's a sense of uncoiling from the staring position. Hardest part for most to get is being patient enough to let their hips lead their upper body. Smooth transfer of weight from front to back leg, strong back leg block, with the 'squash the bug' pivot of front leg, uncoiling upper body, front arm block after hip rotation chest up, head back, chin out, stone being put from shoulder out at same angle your chest is at, with the optional pivot follow though.

See nothing to it ;-)

[Alan H]

Ah, I see. Ya, i've watched all of Ryan's training vids, I remember that one now. When he was instructing me on my technique he was explaining that getting that weight put over your back foot is pretty critical, and then one powerful motion out, shooting through that back foot. My big problem was getting used to putting all that weight back there. Single leg strength has never been that great with me, so I've been working more single leg stuff into my strength training.
I also asked him about the shuffle, as i'm getting better distance using that rather than attempting a traditional spin, mostly because i'm still fairly novice at it and getting used to the motions. He said he thinks it's best to try to use a spin if possible just because that's supposed to be greatest means of power production for the throw. But I do know there are a few athletes out there, even at the Olympic caliber, that use a shuffle. Have any thoughts on it?

I remember reading somewhere, that the majority of top flight shotputters can stand-throw within 2-3 feet of their glide-spin. I remain convinced that a REALLY good standing throw is better than a lousy spin-glide.

When you look at the best gliding male shotputters of all time, these guys are massive. I mean they are HUGE and viciously strong. The era of the 70+ glide shotputters is over, because they were all steroid monsters. You can see them on youtube, search around.

The spinners are where it's at now, but to get that right, you have to practice, practice, practice, practice, like it isn't funny. You also have to be careful not to blow your knees out. I mean, spinning a hundred times on a smooth concrete surface is one thing. Spinning 100 times grass is something entirely different.

Remember that ALL these techniques, glide, shuffle, South African, full-spin ALL of them do one thing. They get you to the Power Position, and from there, you explode.

Like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqk6wSbvCdA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aYqtHLwwaU


STOMP the left foot, EXPLODE the brat off of your lap, and extend, extend the throw out beyond the trig. There's the core of it.

spin, glide, south african, shuffle....they all just get you to the point of explosion.

[Alan H]

A simple shuffle, where you get in the power position and then advance quickly, a short hop toward the toeboard....that's where I'm at, personally.

I'm pretty convinced that developing a good spin needs a good coach, and frequent contact with that coach. I think that I will do nothing but screw myself up if I try it on my own. If I had Ryan down the road and could see him for an hour every other week, I might go for it, but I don't. I'm pretty much on my own here, and I have to make the most of the few coaching contacts I get. ONE afternoon with Mike Macellari, and religiously practicing the toeboard workouts in that video has taken me from a 27 foot stone thrower to inches from 30 feet, in 6 weeks. I have to make every single coaching contact I get *count*

Ditto for the help I got from Josh Grace on hammer and LWFD. By incorporating what I learned from Josh in ONE afternoon, plus internalizing the implications of ONE comment from Dennis Morrison (one of the 50+ guys I throw against) I've gone from a 38-39 foot LWFD thrower to a PR of 44' 8", and regularly going over 45, nearly 46 in practice.

Since I don't have constant coaching, I have to PAY ATTENTION at every coaching contact point I get, and maximize what I get out of it. BTW, I'm liking Ryan's "360 drills" for LWFD and I think I'm going to do those. The first-turn release drill...already do that. I can't do the line drills, my right knee won't stand for it. I've tried.

I try to find something simple and do it well, before getting fancy and screwing it up. KISS. That's my philosophy.

Besides, you have to do a standing throw for the Braemar, so it carries over. But if you have access to Ryan, say every other week, then go for it.