Questions galore

[captjamie]

Questions, questions, questions. Seems like the more I learn and try the more questions I come up with. So here are a few of them, and yes I realize that most of you wont answer 1 or 2 due to their nature and I understand that but still hope for some feed back. First off let me set the stage with where I am at, I have never before thrown in competetions (highland games) I have a goal for 2 games this year. I am 50 years in body and about 20 in mind and spirit , weigh in at 288 lbs at 6-0 tall, yes way to much body fat . I have just started (in the last week) a work out program to help build muscle that has gone soft and cardio to try to burn some fat. The program consists of M-W-F weigh lifting (which I hate)and a cardio everyday of the week. I have put together a few training implements to practice with; 16 lb hammer;24 lbs stone and a caber that is 14'-10" and 107 lbs.
Question #1 given that current work out schedule, how any days a week should I practice throwing? and how much of each event is a good balance?
I know my self well enough to stop before doing any harm and I can always do the drills that are shown in the VP Productions DVD set on throwing.
Question #2 Cabers, What is a good size for a practice caber? Length/weight? Today was my first day practicing with the caber and while I could lift it up off the ground I lost control each time trying to get my hands under it. this leads to the next ? when lifting the caber do you lift only by pinching it with the hands or are you trapping it with the shoulder and hands together using the upper weight of the caber to your advantage? not sure that I worded that very clearly, if any of you are not sure what I mean I well try again in a follow up post. Balance is vital when lifting and that is where I am currently having problems. What should the diameter of the lower/ smaller end be? and are they completely rounded or is there still a small flat spot on the end?
Well I guess that's enough for know, more well follow I am sure.
Jamie

[Alan H]

Questions, questions, questions. Seems like the more I learn and try the more questions I come up with. So here are a few of them, and yes I realize that most of you wont answer 1 or 2 due to their nature and I understand that but still hope for some feed back. First off let me set the stage with where I am at, I have never before thrown in competetions (highland games) I have a goal for 2 games this year. I am 50 years in body and about 20 in mind and spirit , weigh in at 288 lbs at 6-0 tall, yes way to much body fat .

Well, I'll answer what I can!

I have just started (in the last week) a work out program to help build muscle that has gone soft and cardio to try to burn some fat. The program consists of M-W-F weigh lifting (which I hate)and a cardio everyday of the week.

Without seeing what the weight lifting program is I can't comment, but I'll outline a few points. The first one is something that my trainer, the beautiful and wise Wendy talked to me about, once. Highland Games are great. I mean, they are *Great Fun*. But especially at our age, we also need to be thinking about other things. Resistance training 1-2x a week is good for your life-overall as long as you approach it with some common sense. If you haven't been lifting or working out or doing hard physical work for many years, then start slow. Find out what's hard, but not *killer* hard and stick with that for a couple of months. Add weight slowly. As was pointed out to me recently, our muscles will increase in strength faster than our tendons, ligaments and joints will increase....that is where you are likely to get hurt.

Do not read the blogs and see the website of the pros who are deadlifting 600 pounds and hang-snatching 300 pounds and think you have to be doing that in six months. Myles Wetzel, who is a HUGE lifter, wrote something to me once, that really stuck. He told me to find what works for me, and then do that, do it well, and use it to get stronger.

The cardio will increase your agility, and even better than that...it will help you live longer.

I have put together a few training implements to practice with; 16 lb hammer;24 lbs stone and a caber that is 14'-10" and 107 lbs.
Question #1 given that current work out schedule, how any days a week should I practice throwing? and how much of each event is a good balance?

During the off-season, meaning November to the end of February, I lift 3x a week and throw when I can on weekends, maybe once or twice a month. So maybe I throw once every other week. This year I'm doing shot put and discus so I'm throwing almost every weekend, but I wouldn't be doing that if I was just doing Highland Games. At the beginning of the HG season, March through May, I throw twice a week and lift once a week. Last year I kept throwing twice even three times a week through September and I paid for it in gross overtraining, and my performance at the late-season Games suffered. I didn't lift at all from June through October. This year I will NOT throw more than twice a week during the season, no matter what.

I know my self well enough to stop before doing any harm and I can always do the drills that are shown in the VP Productions DVD set on throwing.

Question #2 Cabers, What is a good size for a practice caber? Length/weight?

Regarding caber.... I would recommend finding a lighter caber. 14' 10" is a good length....really anything from 14 -17 feet is fine, but 100 pounds is one heavy stick for a beginner. Try to find something in the 60 pound range. Basically, find something that you can at least turn once in a while, and work on technique, timing and *pop* with that stick until you can turn it 8 x out of 10. Then get a slightly longer or heavier stick. The usual wisdom says that you will learn more about timing by using a longer caber, you will develop more strength using a heavier caber.

BTW, I am a horrible caber thrower. My timing is dreadful, and I need to locate a 16 foot, 70 pound stick to practice with. I have a new 15 ' 2" 100 pounder, but that's just too heavy for me right now. o1d dude here on X Marks is a pretty good caber thrower, let's see what Kit has to say.

Today was my first day practicing with the caber and while I could lift it up off the ground I lost control each time trying to get my hands under it.

Welcome to the world of the caber. I can't write this anywhere near accurately, you need to get help face-to-face.. Do NOT invent the wheel all over again, like I did. Find someone who knows how to do this and work with them a few times to figure it out.

this leads to the next ? when lifting the caber do you lift only by pinching it with the hands or are you trapping it with the shoulder and hands together using the upper weight of the caber to your advantage? not sure that I worded that very clearly, if any of you are not sure what I mean I well try again in a follow up post. Balance is vital when lifting and that is where I am currently having problems.

Gee, you think? You are picking up a 15 foot long stick, which is top-heavy, by the bottom end. It weighs 100 flippin' pounds. Once you've picked it up, you are running around the field with it. And you don't expect to have balance problems, when starting out with this??? Don't stress. It'll come.

What should the diameter of the lower/ smaller end be? and are they completely rounded or is there still a small flat spot on the end?

OK, well different woods are different densities, so exact measurements are impossible but as a very general rule, for cabers in the 50-59 class, the top of the stick is about as big around as a 6 x 6 that has been cut down into an octagon. The bottom of the stick is about as big around as a 4 x 4 that has been expanded up into an octagon. Does that make sense?

Cabers are all different. Most are rounded at the bottom. Some just have the bottom edges sort of rounded off with a flat spot....others are almost ball-shaped at the bottom. Those are a bit more comfortable to hold and carry.

Well I guess that's enough for know, more well follow I am sure.
Jamie

Hope that was helpful!

[Alan H]

More on cabers....

The caber that I give to the beginning men throwers that I work with is about 14 feet long and 45 pounds. We call it the "Argyll". They work on that until they can turn it pretty much every time, and turn it *right*. Lots of guys can pick that up, run with it and fling it over, but doing it *right* is different.

I used to have a 15 foot 70 pounder (The Cardinal) which was the next step up. That got broken at the end of last season, so that's what I'm looking for now. That was the stick I used the most.

"The Whomper" our "big stick" is 16' 2" and about 100 pounds and awkward as hell. I keep that around for A-level throwers.

My new stick is completely dried out and seasoned, it's doug fir, 15'2" and I would guess about 100 pounds or maybe even 110. It's really too heavy for me but I don't want to shorten it, because it's a good stick for me to "graduate" to later in this season.

[thescot]

Questions, questions, questions. Seems like the more I learn and try the more questions I come up with. . . .Jamie

Welcome, Jamie.

As to Heavy Atheletics, Alan will help you.

As to overall body improvement and health, I would recommend The Four Hour Body. It will give you a fairly quick, healthy way to lose fat, gain muscle, and not go hungry at all. No matter what anyone says, it is based on lots of research, and you can be in good anough shape not to hurt yourself in a month or two.

Good luck, keep us posted (with photos), and keep plugging.

[McBird]

Caber diameter at the tapered (lifting) end - actually pretty small. 4" to 5" - above 5" and you can't get your fingers locked underneath it.

And - just my two cents worth on the subject. Never throw the caber alone. Never try to "hog" the caber - if it is going in the wrong direction fast, the Laws of Physics and Gravity are not forgiving in the least. YOU WILL NOT STOP IT! If it slips between your hands when you pop it, don't try to clamp it. I've seen someone try to run with it that way and the two foot of caber hanging under their hands goes directly into the tenderest part of the under-kilt.

Along with the hammer - there is no more dangerous event in the sport. Well, I did see a guy put his sheaf fork in his leg once - but you have to really try to do that....

Rb

[Alan H]

McBird is right. NEVER try to pull a caber back that you have lost control of. The almost certain result is pain and a cast, at the least.

If you pick a caber and start to really lose it, dump it off your shoulder and RUN AWAY. Dump and GET AWAY. Do not dump it and stand there, the thing will hit the ground, kick back and slam you in the nuts so hard that it defies description. If it doesn't crush your genitals then it will bust your kneecap, or take out your shoulder.

[DougC]

Alan--that is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time...good advice too.

[McBird]

Didn't see it myself - but one of our association's guys snapped a clavicle like a toothpick with the caber. Levered it on his shoulder and didn't step out from under it.

I've only ever gotten a 12:00 myself - after more than two years, I can get a pick fairly regular. I pulled one back against my shoulder and the bark ground a burnie on the side of my skull - scabbed over real good, about the size of my 10 year's old fist.

Our idea of fun is definitely a bit different than most folks...

Richard

[captjamie]

Thanks for all the info so far, it seems that my caber is to large in diameter, I'll have to get to work shaving it down. No worries on trying to keep it under control, I have spent the most of my adult life working in commerical construction as a pipe fitter, and know that even a large strong man can not win out over gravity when something heavy wants down. Alan I have enjoyed reading all of your posts hear and over at NASGA. I was going to post this thread threre the other night but was having trouble getting on to that site, so I put it hear. I may still post it over there as there may be more feed back, but the basics have been answered.
Thanks again to all of you

Cheers mates

[Detroitpete]

Captjamie, You've gotten great advice here about lifting and throwing. What I'll add--is old guy to old guy Remember, if you lift, get in shape and pratice, this is a sport you can stay with. The key in my mind is NEVER over lift and never over practice--BUT the only thing you can take into the trig is your preparation. Do an exercise program you can stick with for a while. This isn't just good for throwing and cabers--its good for your health as stated above. Some poo-poo cardio work, but I'm a huge fan of it. It keeps me healthy and my weight in control. That helps with my blood pressure and glucose issues. Also, always remember--you don't COMPETE in Highland Heavy Athletics, you SURVIVE them. Good cardio is your only defense against getting gased by the third event--while looking at the rest of a long day in the hot sun.

The more you use a sensible workout and practice program, the more likely you won't tweek something and you'll just have to deal with the normal aches and pains of guys our ages.

When it comes to throwing and turning cabers--the ONLY way to get better is to practice. Then practice some more, then hopefuly get pointers on your form breaks from people who know what they're doing. If you're really lucky, you might even be able to get with a few local throwers and practice together.

If turning cabers was easy--people wouldn't look at us like we're crazy! It is one of the most unnatural acts you can participate in. In the end--you'll be one of a handful of guys who can do it. Practice picking a caber--over and over. A good pick will deny most of the problems that can happen with a caber. The rest is just timing, which comes with practice.

Good luck, stay healthy and hope to see you on the field sometime.