Annoying Crossbelt Questions

[PiperOfThePlains]

I'm going to be very short, frank, and hopefully not too annoying.

1. How far down on your hip should the crossbelt sit?
2. Is it supposed to continually droop/fall down your chest? (I think I know the answer to this one.)
3. What is the appropriate distance from the bottom of your waistbelt to the top of your crossbelt?
4. would it be advisable to buy a Quicky MacCheapo and move the mounts from my existing (and potentially too large) to altered MacCheapo?

Any and all opinions are welcome!

[mookien]

I'm going to be very short, frank, and most assuredly annoying.

Never having worn a crossbelt, and knowing nothing about them, my advice is to watch the following YouTube short and model your crossbelt attire after Alphonso Bedoya's "capitan".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcVhoHdRFo

"I don't have to show you any steenking badges!"

[Steve Ashton]

Your crossbelt should be adjustable.

To find the right height for you put your chosen sword into the frog and then reach over with your draw hand. The handle of the sword should comfortably meet your hand.

Don't bend or twist to reach your sword handle. The idea is that you should be able to draw the sword in a natural and easy manner.

Adjust the height of the frog till you can do this. Viola!

A modern cross belt is actually a very awkward way to carry a sword. Modern crossbelts are made more to look fancy and carry flags much more than to carry swords.

[OC Richard]

In looking over my vintage photos it quickly became apparent that very few photos show the end of the crossbelt! Because most photos aren't taken from that side of a piper, or if they are, the piper's pipes are hiding that area. But here's one



And you can see that the end of the "V" goes to around the bottom of the jacket's Inverness skirt.

About it being loose, the thing is with that so-called "military piper's dress" (which was actually introduced into the army in the 1840s from the civilian world) is that it has a lot of potentially moving parts: the waistbelt, the crossbelt, the full plaid; and for everything to look neat and even, everything has to be tight.

For the crossbelt it means having the crossbelt under the waistbelt, and the waistbelt tight, to keep the crossbelt behaving.

In the 19th century the same uniform was worn, but everything tended to look sloppier at times: crossbelt looser and drooping, the full plaid not with pressed-in pleats as today, but simply gathered or bunched, and the plaid not wrapped tightly around the body as today, but somewhat loose and droopy.

Yes vintage crossbelts and some modern high-end crossbelts which are traditionally made will have a bit of adjustment. For larger adjustment the belt itself has to be made in different lengths. This is because the tip can't just be anywhere, but (for a neat proper look) should end a bit above the waistbelt. It looks bad if the tip is too low, covering the waistbelt, or too high. There should be nice spacing, with the crossbelt buckle between the top of the plaid and the epaulette, and the keeper and tip of the crossbelt fairly evenly spaced between the bottom edge of the plaid and the waistbelt, if the crossbelt is to be worn under the plaid. If the crossbelt is to be worn over the plaid as with the Argylls PM above (this varies from regiment to regiment) it looks best to have fairly even spacing across the chest of the three bits of hardware. Note that the Argylls PM above has two badges above the buckle meaning that the buckle needs to be lower than it would be on a crossbelt lacking those badges.

Here are Scots Guards pipers back in the day; you can see the gathered/bunched plaids and the fairly even spacing of the crossbelt hardware, in this case the plaid going over the crossbelt (the guy on the right, a bit taller, is wearing a crossbelt that's too short for him)



Here's a modern Scots Guards PM and you can see the difference with the plaid, it now having pressed-in pleats and worn more tightly. You can also see the nice spacing of the crossbelt hardware.



Being tall and somewhat rotund, I had to order a special-made extra-long crossbelt. I ordered it plain so that I could cut it and secure the hardware in the necessary places for the neat look I wanted.

If you're shorter than your crossbelt was intended for you will probably end up with either the end "V" going too low and/or the tip going too low and covering your waistbelt.

If so you will need to remove the tip, cut the end shorter, and attach the tip to the new end you've created.

[PiperOfThePlains]

Thanks, y'all.

OC, as I do not have a properly fitting doublet just yet, I assume the saber tashes/Inverness skirts are bout over the hips? I do realize now that my crossbelt is entirely too long. Would it be advisable to move the L&M mounts to a very cheap (and more than likely poorly made) crossbelt I could probably pick from greathighlandwear.com or a place of the like? Although I do have leather working experience, I would rather not go hacking away at something so expensive and nice, even though I will have to reset the rivets when the time comes I grow into it.

[OC Richard]

That's a call you're going to have to make. There are other options, such as picking up a high quality used crossbelt on Ebay for cheap that you can cut down to size.

Thing is, a crossbelt that's too big isn't of any use, so why not modify the one you have? Rather than have it, without hardware, sitting in a closet?

Actually I have an old crossbelt, I think, that I bought to get the hardware off of, that I could just give you. I'll have to check. But it's way too small for me!

For some reason I have old crossbelts sitting around, and a half-dozen sets of hardware.

About doublets, many modern Indian and Pakistani ones are made far too long in the waist. The doublet waist is supposed to be at the man's actual waist, not down around the hips.
If you're a smaller size you can pick up actual MOD doublets, and vintage doublets, cheaply on Ebay.

This photo shows the way a military doublet is supposed to be, with the waist high, up almost the elbows as you can see; note also the elegant shape of the skirts, something modern doublets rarely get right; note also that the collar is only piped around its base, and that the epaulettes lack piping, other things modern makers tend to get wrong



Here's a real traditional doublet showing the elegant tailoring and shapes

[PiperOfThePlains]

Wow! It's a Tartan Day miracle! I'd be absolutely more than happy to relieve you of that burden of such a terribly small crossbelt. Please P/M me if you happen to run across it.

Unfortunately, as far as doublets are concerned, eBay has turned up very little in my favour. I'm only 5'6", and a 34" chest (I'm 98Lbs.), so finding things in my very tiny size is quite a hassle...

[OC Richard]

I've seen dozens, hundreds, of doublets and kilt jackets your size on Ebay over the years, because Scottish soldiers (especially in the old days) were quite slender, and often rather short.

My size (48/50 chest and 6'4" tall) is extremely rare in the military, though there is that famous Pipe Major of The Black Watch, Jimmy Anderson aka The Big Ugg

[PiperOfThePlains]

Be sure to let me know the next time you stop one, cause I'll jump right on it!
One of my greatest inspirations in piping has always been GS McLennan -- A whopping piper and only 5'2"!

[Sean D]

Agree with what was said here , your crossbelt must never droop or be loose fitting I see many pipers wear their crossbelt over the plaid , I prefer to wear mine over my cross belt and the plaid hooked under the buckle and everything worn tight against the body so nothing moves and the waist belt over the cross belt to keep it pulled down and tight the v of the cross belt sits on my hip sort of level with the inverness flaps , there is no exact measurement. More play around and see what works and adjust as needed BEFORE I must play , usually the day before I run through everything and put the lot on and adjust and check then its normally ready to go the next day . Cheers !