Tie knots - does it really matter?

[Tobus]

Growing up, I was taught to tie my neckties in a Half-Windsor knot. That's the only knot I ever tied for several decades, and to be honest I didn't even know there were other types of knots. To me, it was just how you were supposed to tie a tie.

I've never tied a Four-in-Hand knot. And recently, I've actually switched over to using a full Windsor knot (rather than my default Half-Windsor). The reason I've done this is because I'm a short guy, and most neckties are too long for me. So even when I tie it so that the tail is even with the front when adjusted, it still hangs below the top of my belt when wearing trousers. So since the Windsor uses more material in the knot than the Half-Windsor, it works a little better for me on length.

However, I'm led to believe that the Windsor is a more formal knot. But does it really matter? If I'm wearing a Windsor knot with my office attire (usually dress slacks, a spread-collar shirt and tie, and sometimes a tweed sport jacket), am I technically "off" with my choice of knot?

And furthermore, how does it translate to kilt-wearing? Would a Windsor knot be horridly inappropriate with a tattersal shirt and tweed jacket as daywear? Of course, the length of my tie is even more at issue when wearing a kilt, so I usually have to resort to tying the front to the correct length and then just stuffing the tail into my kilt. And I'm always self-conscious about it, though it's not noticeable if I'm wearing a waistcoat.

So please tell me what the 'proper' knot would be for varying levels of formality, and whether this is a hard-and-fast rule.

[Chirs]

I can't offer any thoughts on what is "proper" but I can understand where you're coming from - all my clothing is size R, as in Runt. When wearing a tie I also use the half-Windsor and adjust it according to where it will fall. If the tail is too long I tuck it into my shirt just below the tie-bar. Seems to have worked out so far, but I don't wear ties (aka "the noose") all that often.

[davidg]

I suspect that the purist will say that the knot does matter if you are attending formal/semi-formal functions but, in reality, I don't think many people are going to be able to tell the difference between a half windsor and a full windsor

I have always used the half windsor myself and it is a fairly good knot. The only time I would use anything else is if I needed a slightly wider knot to fill a cut away collar

As for the tail, try putting it inside your shirt entering just below the top button, then smooth it down inside the front. That way it does not show from the outside

[Braemar Kiltmaker]

As someone who spent a lot of years in the menswear business, I would say that the bigger issue is the style of collar on the shirt. Both Windsor and Half-Windsor knots produce quite a bulky knot that looks better and more in proportion with a Spread collar - a Four-in-Hand knot would look too thin in that situation. With a more common style of standard business shirt collar, or even a Button-Down collar, the narrower Four-in-Hand would look more suitable - the Windsors would look way too bulky there.

So if your shirt wardrobe includes a variety of collar widths, I'd suggest you allow your repertoire of knots to vary as well. When it's necessary to deal with the extra length, tucking the tail under your belt has the side benefit of keeping the tie in place! Ron.

[MacMillans son]

I can certainly relate to the long tail issue Tobus, especially when wearing the kilt. I'm 6' tall and wear a 17" neck and still have that problem a lot.

I also use the Half Windsor, but my understanding of the different knots is not so much a matter of formality but of the collar spread on the specific shirt. A full Windsor, being wider, sometimes doesn't fit well in the space provided and forces the collar to bunch up. And a Half Windsor may look to be too narrow in ones with a wide spread.

At least that's my understanding of it.

[KWD]

I always tie in a full Windsor, I have never used any other knot, and don't think i ever will, I like the "larger" triangle the full Windsor makes, i think it looks nice.

[Peter Crowe]

Like many other posters stated, I think a lot depends on the collar type, and might I also suggest the tie itself, which if fuller in size/weight of fabric will affect the size of the knot. I have used all three at various times but my personal ideal preference is a half-Windsor knot on a tie with a three inch blade worn with a spread collar shirt. When tied at the right point this usually falls to just over the top of my trouser waistband (slightly lower with the kilt).

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

As long as it isn't a pre-tied, or clip on tie, the knot doesn't really matter....

[creagdhubh]

I can certainly relate to the long tail issue Tobus, especially when wearing the kilt. I'm 6' tall and wear a 17" neck and still have that problem a lot.

I also use the Half Windsor, but my understanding of the different knots is not so much a matter of formality but of the collar spread on the specific shirt. A full Windsor, being wider, sometimes doesn't fit well in the space provided and forces the collar to bunch up. And a Half Windsor may look to be too narrow in ones with a wide spread.

At least that's my understanding of it.

This is my belief too. And I also agree with Scott's statement on the matter.

[kiltedwolfman]

I learned to tie the full Windsor in the forces and the reason given to us was that a "Half knot makes for half a man". The knot on the Windsor can be made smaller by slight readjustment of it's location or by how tight you snug it up. A great big sloppy knot never looks good. As to the Four in Hand, personally I've never liked it, it looks like a poor attempt at tying a knot by someone who wasn't willing to take the time to leanr a proper knot. Just my oppinion.