US Veterans, militaria, etc...

[SandSailor'00]

Greetings,

I am an honorably discharged veteran of the recent actions in the Middle East...I'm also a proud wearer of the kilt. As there are no "official" regulations for any US branch of service regarding the wear of kilts, I was hoping to get the collective opinion of the community in regard to the following scenarios, and which...if any...are more or less "accepted" and would do no disservice to the honor of either the US awards or Highland tradition/customs.

1. Daywear-It is typically considered appropriate to wear "lapel pins" of awards (one at a time) with civil daywear (i.e. the Argyle), but I've heard that recent changes would permit, in limited venues (such as a veterans event/day of recognition), the wear of full sized, personal (not unit) awards such as the MSM, COMM, etc. Has anyone experienced this, or have an opinion?

2. Miniature medals-I've always understood miniatures to be an "evening attire" item...is this correct for the Prince Charlie only (again, for an inactive veteran), or does size/pocket layout etc result in miniatures being worn with semi-formal as well?

3. Diced hose-My understanding is that the diced hose are worn with uniform only, and I've heard in the UK, it used to be commissioned officers only. Is there ever an appropriate time for a retired/honorably discharged commissioned officer to wear the diced hose, not in uniform?

4. Glengarry-Here in the States, this seems to be the most common headgear in Highland attire. What, if any rules dictate the wear of "diced" or black headgear. I assume other shades, such as the "green" Balmoral have roots to Scots regiments.

5. Finally, have any US veterans here in the forum seen/used/would be willing to hazard opinion on variations of the UK issued short, belted tunic sans military rank/insignia/awards. The green wool "ike jacket" style jackets are certainly "smart" looking, but I wouldn't wear the tunic of another sister service...so I am hesitant with that of an allied military, though they do work so well with the kilt.

Thanks for your time and help.

[Jock Scot]

Just so you know. Firstly you are now a civilian, but as a civilian there are appropriate times to wear your decorations. That is the easy bit! The Scots(British) civilians who have served their country have different ways of when and where to wear their decorations to how retired American servicemen do. So marrying Scots kilt traditions and British decorations is one thing and marrying up Scottish kilt traditions and retired American servicemen and their decorations are very different. There are several threads on the subject that you might seek out. Good luck to you laddie.

[Cavfsnco]

Just a couple of thoughts as too the wearing of medals with civilian attire. The respective service dress regulations specify how and when they can be worn with civilian attire. AR 670-1 for the Army for example. They are readily available on line for review. The diced hose are not restricted to uniform wear but are generally reserved for dress occasions ( black tie or higher level of dress). The Ike style of jackets without insignia are just fine for wear they do indeed look good with kilts. Just my two cents worth

[SandSailor'00]

Just so you know. Firstly you are now a civilian, but as a civilian there are appropriate times to wear your decorations. That is the easy bit! The Scots(British) civilians who have served their country have different ways of when and where to wear their decorations to how retired American servicemen do. So marrying Scots kilt traditions and British decorations is one thing and marrying up Scottish kilt traditions and retired American servicemen and their decorations are very different. There are several threads on the subject that you might seek out. Good luck to you laddie.

Jock Scot-Thank you; you've nailed the issue on the head..."marrying" UK traditions with our own can be "muddy" water; especially when you may be the youngest man in the room.

[SandSailor'00]

Just a couple of thoughts as too the wearing of medals with civilian attire. The respective service dress regulations specify how and when they can be worn with civilian attire. AR 670-1 for the Army for example. They are readily available on line for review. The diced hose are not restricted to uniform wear but are generally reserved for dress occasions ( black tie or higher level of dress). The Ike style of jackets without insignia are just fine for wear they do indeed look good with kilts. Just my two cents worth

Cavfsnco-Many thanks; I'm a Sailor, and we do have some "slightly" different regs in regard to civil attire...these have changed recently as well, so even those of us who've only recently left the Services sometimes wonder.

Your advice pretty much "nailed it" on the Ike

[The Wizard of BC]

The official and definitive answer to your questions 1 & 2 can be found in the uniform regulations of your respective service. I would strongly suggest you take a look as each service is slightly different.

As you have found the only branch of the US Military that has recognized and adopted a Tartan is the US Coast Guard. It is in the regulations that this is for the use of the band but many Coasties have worn a kilt in the USCG Tartan and not been a part of a band. Personal choice on their part.

No other US Military brand has recognized a Tartan and none authorize a kilt to be worn as part of the uniform. The bands of the respective branches wear a different uniform that other serving members and have their own set of uniform regulations.

As a retired vet I do wear my miniatures with formal kilt attire - When appropriate. As I currently live in Canada I respect that this is limited to events of a military nature such as Remembrance/Veteran's days, Dinning-in's at a Military Mess. etc. The invitations to these events usually specify that wearing decorations is appropriate.

The answer to your questions 3, 4, and 5 are personal choice. The kilt and other components of kilt outfits do not have rules and regulations. There are conventions only such as diced hose are usually worn as evening or formal wear.
There are myths around about the dicing on bonnets. These are myths. If you like dicing wear dicing. If you don't like the look of dicing don't wear it.

The answers to these three questions are answered with "If you are in the military or a pipe band you will have uniform rules and regulations. Abide by those regulations. Otherwise you are wearing a kilt in civilian clothing. You are not in uniform. You are not bound by the uniform regulations when you are in civilian clothes.
If you like the look of the short British Battle Dress or the US Ike jacket then of course you can wear one. The Ike jacket is no longer part of a uniform.
Out of respect for those serving members I, personally, would never wear rank or other insignia on civilian clothing but I know others who do. Again, their personal choice for their personal reasons.

Basically don't get too wrapped around the axle about trying to conform to some uniform regulation that only applies to persons in that particular unit. In fact for almost every units regulation someone on this forum can find you a unit that does it differently.

[Tarheel]

Here is an extreme case of mixed uniforms. I posted this photo before, after visiting a Veterans Home. What you can't see are beige hose (to match the poplan shirt), black shoes with a military shine (not wing tips), red flashes and no rank (as I am a civilian).
My "lettuce" (earned on the left) but I included my former unit bars, cap badge, collar buttons, Honor Guard ribbon (left sleeve) over the 7th Army "Spearhead" patch (former graduate of NCO Academy) to fill out the look of the emsemble. I have a US Army tartan kilt.
The error of my gear was my Ike jacket (1953 Korean issue) was not RA issue during Vietnam (my era) but I was going for a look that the soldiers of WWII would relate to while they awaited boarding the landing craft before D-Day. They saw a Scottish soldier with the eyes of their youth (give or take seventy years). It was intentional on my part and worth the effort for their sake.

[SandSailor'00]

Excellent and complete advice from all...thank you, Gentlemen.

I've been wearing the kilt for about six years now; mostly to "Highland" oriented events, though I've started to branch out to less "formal" occasions, and this, of course, creates the need for variety. My typical "kit" is a tweed Argyle with waistcoat (grey), white/neutral shirt w/ complimentary tie, MacPhereson "ancient" red tartan, "soft" blue hose/red flashes, brown belt/low-quarter oxford shoes. I rarely, if ever, wear headgear...but when I do, it is typically the "car hat" in a complimentary tweed to the Argyle.

In warmer weather, I've been wearing a blue "aviator" shirt of civilian manufacture, or a chambray with a Navy blue "woolie pullie" sweater. I've also mixed various tweed waistcoats with long-sleeve "work shirts" for very informal-casual events.

I've also recently applied for membership into the S.A.M.S., and am aware of their "uniform" regulations, which vary per Post/region/event.



My question arose from the fact that the full Argyle sometimes feels too "dressy" for a day event...and other options, not quite "dressy" enough. The "battle dress" jackets and the 1908 pattern wool tunic sure do look good with a kilt (naturally), but being an American, it's difficult to know where the similarities end...with say wearing my old DCU field jacket or Navy wool sweater with jeans...and where inappropriate/disrespectful begins...such as were I to wear my old SDB blouse as a civilian blazer (heavens!).

Your information has clarified this for me, and I believe I may incorporate the "battle dress" tunic into my kit for less formal events...without any insignia ;)

Again-many thanks!

Dizzy

[Jock Scot]

I am a tad hazy in US Military terminology and you may have already mentioned it in American! But the British Services "wooly pully" is a fine smart casual addition to one's kilt attire.

[SandSailor'00]

That they do!

In US military traditions, the green "commando" sweater is worn by the USMC...so, being a former Sailor, I'd not wear it. However, the Navy sweater, which is identical, except for being dark, Navy blue and "V-Neck" looks pretty good too.