a couple of measuring questions

[vesuvianite]

So, I'm learning to play the Great Highland Bagpipes, and *really* enjoying it, and starting to dream about the day when I feel like my playing is up to wearing a kilt with the bagpipes. (I started piping because I've always loved the sound.)

Anyway, I've been lurking lurking lurking here, trying to figure out what I wanted, and realized that I can't really afford to just buy what I want. I'm not too shabby with fabric, and bought the Tewksbury and Stuehmeyer book. I'm thinking of a traditional knife pleated affair, but perhaps not with 8 yards. Still thinking on that one (advice?)

I thought I'd start by making a kilt out of cheap fabric for my husband (he's far better suited to kilt-wearing than I am) and then realized we both have the same measurement problem. I know I'm supposed to measure at the widest point of the tush, but for both of us, that is *not* the widest point of our hips. He's got huge muscly thighs, and we won't talk about my problem. If I use the normal tush measurement, will it make the pleats look funny over the thighs (perhaps a 3 inch difference in circumference)?

And I have a second measurement question - I've noticed in some photos of kilt-wearers that if the picture is taken from a vantage point above the wearer that his kilt will appear too long, although it really isn't. Since I'm kinda short, and most vantage points are above me, should I err on a length that is on the short side of knee length, without, hopefully, hitting mini-skirt status?

Thank you for your patience with me!

[Hothir Ethelnor]

My measurements are 32 waist and 40-41 hips.

That's a good 8+ inches of difference. It makes the shaping more drastic and the aprons a bit harder to do but it's always workable.

Now if you have the "waist larger than hips" issue you may want to measure over a pair of pants, measure at the waist all the way around and then measure at the waist, your front, from side seam to side seam. Then to get your hip measurement measure across the back at the hips from side seam to side seam add the front waist and back hip measurement to make your final hip measurement you now should have adequate difference in the correct ways to make a proper kilt.

As far as length goes, a little above the knees is fine but try not to over do it.

And

[sydnie7]

Barb T, who BTW is also a piper, has talked about her own "thigh issue" in at least one thread on this forum. She says it does cause the pleats to flip out. If she hasn't figured out a cure for it, I'm guessing there's no cure

And hey, Hothir, if you're going to start posting the measurement method that (I am fairly certain) I came up with, you can at least give credit -- something I always try to do when posting info I've learned from others

[vesuvianite]

The waist/hips/taper thing was another reason I'd start with one for dh, but I'm really wondering where I should make the hips measurement, because for both me and my dh, we have the thighs-larger-than-hips issue. I wish I could draw a diagram here. I'll work on it. Thanks!

edit: ah, sydnie7, you posted while I was typing. I'll go search for that post. No cure = oh well! I just don't want to put lots of time into something and then learn that if I had only been brave enough to ask, I coulda done it much better!

[Dixiecat]

Don't forget that a kilt apron has a flare in front that help disguise the 'thighs bigger than hips issue'. Where are thighs bigger? In front or behind? Inside or outside? If in front, you could take some of the hip mmt of the pleats and put it more in front at the apron. In behind, you could take some of the front and put more in the pleats. If inside thighs are bigger, no issue there, but if outside, you may need to add an inch to the hip mmt in total to help.

And hey, Hothir, if you're going to start posting the measurement method that (I am fairly certain) I came up with

Sydnie7, this is a fairly common mmt method. I've used it for years in making clothing. It's especially useful when dealing with busts, for instance, I may be 38 at the bust, but only 15" of that goes around my back. It works equally well with waists and hips.

[Hothir Ethelnor]

And hey, Hothir, if you're going to start posting the measurement method that (I am fairly certain) I came up with, you can at least give credit -- something I always try to do when posting info I've learned from others

I know you posted it within the last day or so but it's been floating around for a while and I really couldn't for the life of me remember where I saw it first.

Sorry.

[sydnie7]

Sydnie7, this is a fairly common mmt method. I've used it for years in making clothing. It's especially useful when dealing with busts, for instance, I may be 38 at the bust, but only 15" of that goes around my back. It works equally well with waists and hips.

OK, cool -- I had never run across it on this board or in commercial kiltmakers' measuring instructions but goes to show there's seldom anything new under the sun!

[Pleater]

Having made clothing for a while now, my basic concept for a good fit is to make it big enough where necessary - you can do all the shaping possible, if it is too small it just doesn't work.

Although the basic shape of a kilt is pleats falling straight from the fell, if that isn't your shape then perhaps you should consider some surreptitious flaring pressed into some pleats so they conform to your shape and don't push or pull other pleats out of shape or line.

This might be an anathema to the purist, but I came to kilt making from general clothing, costume making for other people, and over time I learned that the fundamental requirement is to make it fit the wearer.

I would be really cautious about shortening a garment which is only to the knee in the first place - the eye line is particularly important when sitting on a low couch or ascending stairs, and when someone is actually close enough to you for the kilt to look long, they are not usually looking down at your hemline, they are looking at your face.

I would advise using quite deep under apron pleats, so that when moving there is sufficient fabric to flow around your legs rather than pull on the pleats all the time. This might seem rather strange when there is so much fabric in the pleats, but when they are sewn down to the fell the material is held in the folds.

The under apron pleats, which are not sewn down, are actually quite important for ease of movement, and keeping the aprons modestly folded over or falling down between the thighs.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[vesuvianite]

Thanks!
I will move a little to the apron, make extra-deep apron pleats, and hope for the best. I think I need to get *started* somewhere before I can really understand surreptitious flaring.

And I'd completely forgotten about things like sitting! Because I've been so fixated on the piping thing, and of course, you're standing for that.

[Barb T]

"Vesuvianite"! That warms the cockles of my geologist heart....!

In a trad kilt, the pleats are meant to fall straight from the bottom of the fell. Flaring them (even surreptitiously) isn't really an option in a trad kilt - you would ruin the look of the sett across the back and also risk "the wave". So, if you are bigger around below the bottom of the fell, you have a problem.

If you just make the hip measurement bigger, that doesn't solve the problem, because a kilt fits close to the body at the bottom of the fell - if you make it bigger, it still winds up sitting against the body at the bottom of the fell across the pleats. And if you have a flat tummy (which I do), the kilt also sits against the body across the apron. So adding to the apron at the hip doesn't solve the problem either - you have extra circumference at the bottom of the fell, but it's not where you need it. The obvious solution is to put the bottom of the fell at your widest point and let the pleats fall straight from there, but, for most people with the problem you describe, this would add a couple inches to the length of the fell, and the garment would lose all its swing and would stop looking like a kilt.

So, if you're bigger around below the bottom of the fell, the pleats will open a little, and there really isn't much you can do about it. Muscular thighs (or, in my case chubby ones) can be the culprit. Apron flare can help, but it needs to be smooth and gradual, and, frankly, can add only a half an inch or an inch where you really need it.

Me, I love kilts, but, if I weren't a piper, I would never wear one. It just doesn't look good on me because I'm not built "straight".