Number of Snaps

[Bearded Man Brew]

I am working on a contemporary kilt and I always have a question as to how many snaps I should use on the kilt. I like a cleaner looking kilt and do not like lots of snaps on the apron. I have only been using 2 or 3 snaps currently. 2 on the waistband and 1 on the apron on the thigh. Should I be using more than this, or does anyone have any suggestions on what worked in the past for them.

Thanks

[The Wizard of BC]

I think from you recent posts that I see a budding kilt designer in the making.

Let me try to answer your question by giving you a round-about background to the Modern kilts.

There are two basic ways to make a kilt like garment.

For ease I'm going to use two terms you may not have seen before.

"Kilt-Made" and "Jeans-made".

Prior to the introduction of the Utilikilt, all kilts were, what can be called, 'kilt made".

Now, I'm not talking about the outward look of the garment, or the fabric that it is made from. I'm talking about the inside structure of the garment that determines what I am referring to as 'kilt-made' or jeans-made' here.

In a kilt-made garment the outward fabric is not the important part of the construction. Inside the garment are stabilizers and interfacings. The straps and buckles are fastened to these interfacings and this is actually what you are strapping onto your body. The outer, fancy fabric, floats on top or over the internal interfacings without stress or distortion. This allows the outer fabric to 'drape' naturally.

In a Jeans-made garment there are no internal structures. All the stresses of wearing the garment are taken up by the stitching and the outer fabric itself.
The thing that made the Levi brand of jeans so popular was the rivets placed at the stress points of the garment.
Today, the way jeans are made, the lines of stitching are so strong that the fabric will give out before the stitching does.

The type of garment you are describing is one jeans-made. You are relying on your lines of stitching and the strength of the outer fabric to take the stress from wearing the garment.

Just a point of interest - A Kilt made with the 'jeans-made' type of construction is not properly called a Contemporary Style Kilt. It would be called a Casual style or a MUG style. A Contemporary Style Kilt has the internal construction of 'Kilt-made' but is done with modern fabrics and some modern features like pockets.

The Utilikilt, AlphaKilt, Alt.Kilt, and the X-Kilt are all 'jeans-made'.

Can a kilt be done 'Jeans-made' but with straps/buckles, and out of Tartan? Yes, it can. A USA Kilts semi-trad is a great example.
Can a kilt be done 'Kilt-made' but with snaps and out of duck canvas? Yes it can. A Freedom Kilt is currently the only example though.



There are no laws about how these kilts must be made. You can let your imagination go wild. There are no laws that say you must have a certain number of fasteners. The only 'rule' is that the garment should not fall off when you walk.

You asked about waistband width in a prior post. Well, what looks good to your eye? You could make a garment with a three or four inch wide waistband if you want.
The same thing goes when speaking of snaps. Put them where they will hold the garment on your body first. Then, the rest is personal style.

[Bearded Man Brew]

Thanks for the information. I appreciate all of the assistance that I can get on this forum

[Elf]

Another thought is how far do you want your apron and underapron to spread when squatting. (Of course one would not bend over to recover one's lady's lost handkerchief.) Think of snaps farther down akin to the third buckle of a traditional kilt. Anyway you decide, suite your own needs/desires and best of luck.

[The Wizard of BC]

The idea here is not to copy someone else's design. Come up with your own idea. Look around the web. What you will find is that many copy the idea from the Utilikilt.
There is nothing saying that a modern kilt must have snaps. There is nothing saying that you must have snaps on the apron. There is also nothing saying that the apron must be only 7" wide.

If you really want a garment that looks like a Utilikilt you would probably just buy a Utilikilt.

Design your own kilt. Wear it for a while and see if it works. Make changes on your next kilt.

[Canuck]

From my experience. I would just put snaps on the waistband. You could make it so that the waistband is slightly adjustable by putting a series of the male snaps on the inner apron an inch apart to allow for some adjustment in the waist.
Using the "KISS" method is probably the best and most efficient.
I would forgo a snap at the hip, let the aprons have some freedom of movement.
All the best with your project.

[RockyR]

Steve,

I'd differ with you a bit on your first post here... there have been MANY Scottish Made 8 Yard Kilts that would fall into the "jeans made" category, having skimped on the internal construction. Many of them have been discussed up here... you even did a complete re-work on one where the stabilizer was non-existent and the canvas did nothing to reinforce the kilt. I'd also go so far as to say that even on a kilt that IS properly made with the stabilizer, the wearer is still putting stress on the bottom of the fell when s/he sits down (it doesn't completely 'float'). There are countless examples of that as well... Pipe bands routinely come in with properly made kilts (hand sewn and machine sewn) with a pleat ripped from the fell up to the waistband. The stitching has failed at the bottom of the fell from the stress of the wearer's 'rump' pushing against the fabric and come undone straight up to the waistband. You did a (very nice) complete re-work on one of those for your pipe band in the Stewart Hunting tartan a few months back.

Also, one small thing: I think using terms like "jeans made" vs. "kilt made" may get confusing to our newbies (and even to more seasoned Xmarksers) since they're not industry 'standard' terms. I understand what you're getting at by the terms you created, but since we already use terms like "jeans waist" and "kilt waist", it can get confusing pretty fast. How about "full internal construction" vs. "outward appearance construction" or something like that... Just look at how often people STILL ask about "what's a tank?". I'm trying to avoid that same confusion.

[Nik]

Out ignorance or curiosity, take your pick. I'd like to know if it would be possible to have a kilt comfortablly made where the stress of the snaps were carried on a canvas under layer like what most traditionally made kilts use to prevent distortion from the straps.

I'd like to know as I really like the look of snaps on my Got-Kilt hybrid, but really I see too much pulling and stretch on the top apron to feel it's doing anything good to the denim.... That and I like to just throw it on.

-Nik

[The Wizard of BC]

Nik,

Yes, you can make a kilt designed to be worn in a modern way or that looks more modern and yet includes the full stabilizer and interfacing of a traditional kilt.

By definition this is now a Contemporary Style Kilt. The stabilizer and interfacing take the stress of wearing the kilt off the stitching and fabric.

This is what I make every day.