Sporran cantles

**Benning Boy** · 5th June 17, 06:39 PM

Not long before Artificer vanished on us I had been in touch with him about doing some work for me. I put it off then poof he was gone. So now I'm thinking of making my own. I can do other involved craft things well so I feel I can do a decent job making sporrans.

I'd like to know how leather cantles are assembled. Are they sort of the same front and back? I'd like to try one.

I'm curious, on hinged MoD cantles there are a couple of knobs sticking out where the thing hinges are. Are sporrans using these cantles made to fit over these knobs? I think I've seen pictures of bags made this way.

I'll be working with leathers and hides of critters native to the American West, rather than more Scottish sorts of things, like kit fox rather than red and so on.

**McMurdo** · 5th June 17, 07:46 PM

I have 2 MoD cantled sporrans yes the knobs on the sides do go through the leather

Here is another sporran not mine with an MoD cantle you can clearly see the knobs on the side

As for leather cantles I'd look at the sporrans made by Fergusson Britt I've had two of these and his quality is top notch

**Luke MacGillie** · 5th June 17, 08:55 PM

The hinge knobs do not have to go thru the leather

This is an original, perhaps the actual basis for the MOD Cantles.

I wish I had a shot from the rear, as I wonder if the belt bars are broken off/removed and thus the leather loop hanger

**figheadair** · 5th June 17, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Luke MacGillie

The hinge knobs do not have to go thru the leather

This is an original, perhaps the actual basis for the MOD Cantles.

I wish I had a shot from the rear, as I wonder if the belt bars are broken off/removed and thus the leather loop hanger

This one is mine. It is an MOD cantle, not an original and retains the belt bars. I do have an original mid-18th century bronze cantle too, that one never had belt bars and the leather sits inside the hinges.

P1000359a.jpg

**Luke MacGillie** · 6th June 17, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

This one is mine. It is an MOD cantle, not an original and retains the belt bars. I do have an original mid-18th century bronze cantle too, that one never had belt bars and the leather sits inside the hinges.

P1000359a.jpg

Ah! Its converted to lacing on the bag, that photo has made the rounds thru the reenactor community as being an original because of the lacing!

The one you just posted, this is the backside correct?

I was under the impression, given the presence of the 4 holes on the back, that the hangers were broken off, especially combined with the rather crude leather hanger attachment.

**figheadair** · 6th June 17, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Luke MacGillie

Ah! Its converted to lacing on the bag, that photo has made the rounds thru the reenactor community as being an original because of the lacing!

The one you just posted, this is the backside correct?

I was under the impression, given the presence of the 4 holes on the back, that the hangers were broken off, especially combined with the rather crude leather hanger attachment.

There are only two holes, one either side of the belt strap. They've been there for as long as we've had the sporran in the family. The holes look to be roughly drilled, I can't account for them and there's no evidence that there wee ever bars for a strap. The sewing thread is the original gut, not leather. The hanger is contemporary and other the same deer hide as the bag.

**Benning Boy** · 6th June 17, 02:44 PM

Figheadair, I like the single hanger strap on your sporran. That has always seemed the ideal way to hang one but I don't see how it would work when wearing a belt with a buckle centered on front, or is it hung from a regular Spartan strap? I'd like to know more about it.

I have what is probably an early 19th century Dutch purse with a silver cantle I'd like to use for a sporran. The cantle is actually in two parts so it can be used with a doubled bag. It has a single silver hanger chatelain style I'd like to leave attached. It could hang from a wide belt but with a buckle in front but there would be no way to hang it centered. Is there really an issue with wearing a sporran to the side? I know front and center is the Scottish way, so much so it was remarked upon by writers ers of old.
R
McMurdo, the Fergusson Britt Spartan you show; how is it assembled? Is only the top edge where it is bound with leather stiffened, or is there some other stiffening material behind it?

Not having anything on hand to compare things to I've been thinking maybe a couple of pieces of thin tooling leather ought to be used to stiffen the top front and back where the sporran opens, and where it will get the most wear.

Also, I've been thinking it would be nice if the inside of the bag were given a finished look. So, I'm thinking of lining the bags with thin lining leather in some nice color that harmonised with the exterior.

**ShaunMaxwell** · 6th June 17, 03:03 PM

I had to good fortune to acquire three Artificer sporrans, the first of which was Artificer #11, and what was the prototype for his fur sporrans. He initially made two in skunk, as I recall (one for me and one for himself). The photo below might be useful. I seem to recall that each piece of the cantle (front/back) was a couple of pieces of leather that were stitched together with some intricate braiding. Mine had a stiffer leather back, though I think later versions had a softer bag. If I have a chance this evening, I'll try to get some photos that better show the construction.

Good luck and I'm anxious to see what you come up with!

Edit: You might look at the original thread, in which Artificer details the process here: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...52/index2.html

**figheadair** · 6th June 17, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Benning Boy

Figheadair, I like the single hanger strap on your sporran. That has always seemed the ideal way to hang one but I don't see how it would work when wearing a belt with a buckle centered on front, or is it hung from a regular Spartan strap? I'd like to know more about it.

I don't wear a kilt belt per se, never have, and have always worn my sporran from a narrow waist belt of around 1". I think it's probably a piece of old horse tack; my father wore it before me and I must have had it for at least 40 years. It is fastened by a small brass buckle which I wear offset so that it doesn't interfere with the sporran and there is a brass keeper to secure the excess. The effect is not dissimilar to the belt worn by Moray of Abercairney in Davidson's 1735 portrait.

James Moray of Abercairney c1739.JPG

And here's a view of my belt and sporran.

20150807_STA AGM_02.jpg

**Luke MacGillie** · 6th June 17, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by figheadair

There are only two holes, one either side of the belt strap. They've been there for as long as we've had the sporran in the family. The holes look to be roughly drilled, I can't account for them and there's no evidence that there wee ever bars for a strap. The sewing thread is the original gut, not leather. The hanger is contemporary and other the same deer hide as the bag.

Sorry I couldn't get to do the image change out while at work. The net nannies dont like photobucket, and I assume yours dont either!

Given that you have the object at hand, and Im just looking at photos, I see evidence of belt loops, The loops were probably of round stock, and attached with spelter/braised into place instead of peened on the inside.

I highlighted where I think the bars were at some point in the past.

Edited to add, Ive tried to get the image to show, and it even shows when I preview the post, but does not show up after I post, so here is a photobucket link, sorry!