17th and 18th Century reproduction sporrans

[Jacques]

Can some one provide a link for a historically accurate 17/18th century Sporran such as in the attached thread?
Have looked on Etsy and googled West Historic Sales, as well as a general google search with no joy.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...porrans-95959/

Thanks much

Jacques

[Highland Logan]

Can some one provide a link for a historically accurate 17/18th century Sporran such as in the attached thread?
Have looked on Etsy and googled West Historic Sales, as well as a general google search with no joy.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...porrans-95959/

Thanks much

Jacques

https://www.landmhighland.ca/product...ather-sporran/

https://www.kilts-n-stuff.com/shop/c...eiver-sporran/

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/3985...98590325&sca=1

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/6896...ery-1-14&col=1

https://www.etsy.com/market/sporran


Not the same, but in the style of.

[OC Richard]

I would first ask the question "how much do we know about what 17th century sporrans looked like?"

From the get-go we would have to dismiss sporrans in museums, unless they have a date engraved on them.

There are loads of old-looking sporrans in museums, but how many have air-tight provenance? I know with pipes you have legends affixed to many old sets but not much in the way of actual provenance unless a set is stamped with the mark of a known maker or engraved with a date (as is the case with presentation sets).

The main source of knowledge that comes with established dates is iconography, generally portraits. Even if a portrait isn't dated we often know the subject's dates.

What portraits showing sporrans can be firmly dated to the 17th century? The earliest clear image of Highland Dress, a 1631 engraving showing four Highland soldiers, doesn't show any sporrans. Ditto engravings from 1643 and 1661.

The earliest clear detailed colour image of Highland Dress is a full length portrait said to have been painted around 1660. I'm looking at it and I can't make out a sporran. (Sorry this image is so small!)



That's it for the 17th century as far as I know. Which means there can be no such thing as a "reproduction 17th century sporran".

With the 18th century we have a large number of images.

Here's Alastair Grant Mor, 1714. His sporran, probably deerskin, can be seen fairly well.



Next in Lord Duffus, who died in 1734. His sporran, probably also deerskin, is also clearly visible.



Now leaping ahead to 1770 with Lord MacDonald we see the sporran has changed quite a bit. Now it's acquired a purse-like brass top. I believe it's made of sealskin.



With Hugh Montgomerie we see an even more elaborate sealskin sporran, with silver top and rows of tassels.

The original signed and dated portrait, 1780, hangs in the Los Angeles County Museum Of Art. The one owned by the National Museums Scotland is an unsigned, undated copy.

[OC Richard]

About old sporrans in museums, this one looks very much like the Alastair Grant sporran.

Notice the interwoven sort of basketweave border to the flap, I think I can see that in the painting.



This one to me looks remarkably like the one in the Lord MacDonald painting. l can't make out whether this is worn sealskin, or deerskin or something else.



If I wanted to put together an 18th century costume I would be guided by 18th century paintings and the surviving sporrans that match what is seen in the paintings.

I missed seeing that Etsy maker, that reproduction looked fantastic.

Certainly dark shiny leathers won't do.

[figheadair]

I would first ask the question "how much do we know about what 17th century sporrans looked like?"

From the get-go we would have to dismiss sporrans in museums, unless they have a date engraved on them.

The earliest clear detailed colour image of Highland Dress is a full length portrait said to have been painted around 1660. I'm looking at it and I can't make out a sporran. (Sorry this image is so small!)

You're right, there is no sporran shown. It was painted c1680, not 1660.

That's it for the 17th century as far as I know. Which means there can be no such thing as a "reproduction 17th century sporran".

It's a point well made. That said, we can assume that the sporrans in portaits and pictures before c1720 weren't suddenly invented and that they probably represent sytles that were around in the late 17th century.

[Luke MacGillie]

OP, to answer your question about West Historical Sales, they have relocated to Portugal. Will be starting back up soon.

As Etsy and other online platforms are pushing "Free Shipping" for US sellers, they had to delete their store totally, otherwise Etsy would be requiring them to ship from Portugal to the US for free.

They will be back up and running soon.

As to the sporrans they produce, they are copied off of 3 "18th Century" non cantled sporrans that survive in museum collections. All 3 share the same pattern, especially in how the flap and hanger strap are one piece of leather doubled and sewn, the 3 leather knots to close and the gathered bag. These sporrans, when copied in the exact size caused all kinds of hate and discontent among reenactors, as they couldnt fit a modern wallet an Ipad in the sporran. I kept a small bag of coins and a my flint and steel kit and the keys to my Tea Caddy and Wiskey canteen and it works perfectly.

Luke.