X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 71

Thread: Civilian Spats

  1. #11
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,004
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a quite large collection of 19th century and early 20th century photographs of men in Highland Dress and, in looking over them just now, I can only find one showing spats, a fine early image it is:



    More common, in early photographs, are ankle boots




  2. #12
    Join Date
    14th January 11
    Location
    Langley, BC, Canada
    Posts
    659
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have been looking regularly for low spats on that auction site, but they are usually in sizes much too small for my size 12 to 13 shoes.

    Argyle hose tops are so much less expensive than full hose, so I keep looking....

  3. #13
    Join Date
    16th September 09
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,979
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    Spats (or gaiters as they used to be referred to) were an ordinary item of everyday dress, kilted or otherwise, before WWI (1914-1918). After the war they still remained in vogue, especially among the upper-middle and upper classes. As modes of dress became less formal fewer gentlemen wore gaiters and by the end of WWII (1945) only elderly gentlemen would be seen in gaiters.

    Loudon McQueen Douglas in his book, THE KILT (published in 1914), when describing proper day dress, has this to say about gaiters:

    "Footwear should consist of thick soled brogues with gaiters to match the stockings."

    C.R.MacKinnon of Dunakin, writing in 1960, makes no mention whatsoever of gaiters, which clearly indicates that by that date "spats" were probably relegated to the costume of music hall comedians.
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I have a quite large collection of 19th century and early 20th century photographs of men in Highland Dress and, in looking over them just now, I can only find one showing spats, a fine early image it is:



    <snip>
    Thank you both for helping fill in some gaps in the historiography. Strange how spats/gaiters were recommended wear in 1914 but we see so few photos or paintings showing them being worn...
    Last edited by CMcG; 15th May 11 at 05:19 AM.
    - Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
    - An t'arm breac dearg

  4. #14
    Join Date
    12th December 10
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Posts
    704
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CMcG View Post
    Thank you both for helping fill in some gaps in the historiography. Strange how spats/gaiters where recommended wear in 1914 but we see so few photos or paintings showing them being worn...
    I opine it is because they served no useful purpose outside fashion conciousness, and are a pain in the neck. Kilted, they aren't going to keep you any warmer, and they aren't going to keep bugs from crawling up your legs.

    And they were supposed to match the hose color? I have four different colors of hose already and really want at least two more. I feel like changing hose color gives me freedom to wear for instance the same shirt with maybe four different ties and not look like a rental shop patron. Six pairs of gaiters is not in the budget.

    For you guys that are thinking about this, the one thing they are going to do for you is smooth out your foot line, make the shoelaces go away. I am not going to bust anyone's chops for ordering eight pairs in eight different colors. But really, you are going to need more wardrobe space, it is more stuff to keep clean and I don't think you are going to wear them very often.

    Tell you what, figure out your favorite look, shirt/tie/kilt/hose/shoes and order one pair of gaiters to match those hose. See how often you really wear those after two years before you order a second pair of gaiters.

    Claret might be a good choice. But in my neck of the woods if I show up in a tie, a kilt and claret hose no one is going to comment on claret spats; the few that notice probably won't see the point.

    Thirsty Viking, you look great in those. I am not sure how far up the formality scale you could take them, but you look quite at home in them as pictured.

    Tobus, I can see the point. You are geared up for more than a day hike and you don't have to worry about thorns, bugs or your socks (or anything else below the knee) while you are wearing those. You might get some bug bites ON your knees, but not through your leggings.

    Harry Lauder looks like a million bucks. I notice his gaiters contrast with his hose, and HRH the Duke of Rothesay seems to generally wear his garter ties in the same manner.

    I'll wager ten US dollars that if we buy MacMillan of Rathdown a pair of claret spats this month he will find less than five excuses to wear them to official functions in the next two years.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I opine it is because they served no useful purpose outside fashion conciousness, and are a pain in the neck. Kilted, they aren't going to keep you any warmer, and they aren't going to keep bugs from crawling up your legs.
    I could be wrong, but I would think spats were originally intended to keep the hose from getting wet or snagged when walking through the countryside, since roads were not very well developed in the Highlands back then. Nothing more than a utilitarian function.

    As roads and transportation became more modern, the use of spats went away. Some people clung to them out of a sense of tradition, but that eventually waned.

    I personally love the look, and don't mind the hassle of lacing up gaiters or leggings. I wish they would come back into style.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thanks for the donation to a worthy cause...

    Quote Originally Posted by AKScott View Post
    I'll wager ten US dollars that if we buy MacMillan of Rathdown a pair of claret spats this month he will find less than five excuses to wear them to official functions in the next two years.
    You loose, as I never wear spats. So, let me suggest that you take the cost of a pair of spats (colour unimportant) which is about US $50, and add to that the US $10 that you've lost on this wager, and cut a check for US $60, made payable to The Wounded Warrior Project, and send it on to Matt Newsome at the Tartan Museum. I'll collect the cheque from Matt at the Greenville Scottish Games and pass it along to The Wounded Warrior Project, one of two charities that the games generously support (the other being the Erskine Hospital in Scotland).

  7. #17
    Join Date
    14th January 11
    Location
    Langley, BC, Canada
    Posts
    659
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just my 2 cents, but I'd put the ubiquity of spats among the well-heeled in the 18th and 19th centuries (and their extinction in the 20th,) down to one cause; the amount of horse manure in city streets (and we think we have 'vehicle exhaust' problems!)

    The cost of replacing/cleaning spats would be so much less than than replacing/cleaning shoes that got a load of exhaust down in the laces, tongue and ankle areas.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    16th September 09
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,979
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AKScott View Post
    <snip>
    And they were supposed to match the hose color?
    Judging by the few examples I can find and the general attitude towards matching that still exists in the Highlands, I imagine the colour wouldn't have mattered at all. Neutral colours like white and grey, seemed popular.

    Here's a few more images I dug up of how it used to be done:





    I'm not sure if this one is military or civilian:
    - Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
    - An t'arm breac dearg

  9. #19
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,004
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In the post above, the image from The Highlanders of Scotland is showing a military man, so spats are to be expected.

    I would wager that the bottom photo is a "play dress-up" photo, not a portrait of a person accustomed to wearing Highland Dress and posing in clothes that they own and wear regularly.

    The tell-tale signs are the mixing of civilian and military items, things being worn improperly, things ill-fitting, and exaggerated poses.

    He's wearing a Gordon Highlanders officer's sporran which has not been stored properly, plain hose with no flashes, mismatching kilt and plaid, no collar badges or cap badge, and posing with a sword tho not wearing a sword belt or scabbard...

    It's obvious when a subject is wearing a Gordon Highlanders sporran but not wearing Gordon Highlanders flashes, hose, spats, kilt, or jacket.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 15th May 11 at 04:26 PM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    12th November 10
    Location
    Central Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,018
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AKScott View Post
    I'll wager ten US dollars that if we buy MacMillan of Rathdown a pair of claret spats this month he will find less than five excuses to wear them to official functions in the next two years.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown View Post
    You loose, as I never wear spats. So, let me suggest that you take the cost of a pair of spats (colour unimportant) which is about US $50, and add to that the US $10 that you've lost on this wager, and cut a check for US $60, made payable to The Wounded Warrior Project, and send it on to Matt Newsome at the Tartan Museum. I'll collect the cheque from Matt at the Greenville Scottish Games and pass it along to The Wounded Warrior Project, one of two charities that the games generously support (the other being the Erskine Hospital in Scotland).
    No, Scott. I think he's got you on a technicality. I'm pretty sure it should have said "no less than five". In fact, though, you have found less than five excuses.
    Kenneth Mansfield
    NON OBLIVISCAR
    My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Spats
    By Lachlan09 in forum Kilt Advice
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 27th December 09, 05:22 AM
  2. Spats?
    By bchunter in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 27th March 09, 03:16 AM
  3. New spats!
    By Macman in forum Show us your pics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 14th July 08, 05:59 PM
  4. Civilian Spats
    By Chef in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 31st December 07, 03:28 PM
  5. Spats
    By MACKAY in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 14th April 05, 01:46 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0