Help identifying three Tartans

[The Wizard of BC]

A customer sent me an email with a picture of a kilt found while cleaning out an old storage locker of the Canadian Scottish Regimental Armory.

It may have been a pipers kilt. It may be quite faded.

No one can identify these three Tartans.

Please notice that the rosettes are made from Ribbon and not tartan fabric so the pattern is not symmetrical.

Also note that the bottom Rosette which I first thought was MacKenzie Seaforth actually has yellow stripes with black guards on either side of the center Red stripe.

Click on the image for a larger view.


As this is probably a military kilt I would expect these Tartans to be of those associated with the Canadian Military.

I have also never seen Tartan rosettes used on a military kilt. I'm not saying it was not done, just that I've never seen it before. Would any of our historians be able to help with this concept of three Tartans on one kilt used in the Canadian military?

[OC Richard]

Is the tartan Lennox? That was worn by the pipers of The Canadian Scottish Regiment up until 1927, according to Barnes.

About tartan rosettes, in Britain they're worn by pipers of The Scots Guards, Royal Scots Fusiliers, and The Black Watch (Pipe Sergeant and Pipe Major). The things the Black Watch wear look more like bows than rosettes, actually.

But I've never seen the tartan rosettes not match the tartan of the kilt, in the Army.

[The Wizard of BC]

Bingo - The kilt is Lennox.

Now, anyone figure out the top rosette?

[MacEanruig]

It looks like a variation of theRamsay of Dalhousie tartan.

[figheadair]

Yes, the kilt is Lennox. Silk and faux silk tartan ribbon often has to be woven with an amended sett, usually with different warp and weft elements, in order to get the pattern to fit. And so it is here.

From top to bottom the tartans are MacGregor and MacKenzie.

[The Wizard of BC]

Thank you Peter, I would not have gotten MacGregor in a thousand years. I looked right at it and could not make that connection.

So the bottom one is still MacKenzie even with the yellow stripes?

[OC Richard]

If I had to guess it would be that it's a pre-1928 Canadian Scottish Regiment pipers' kilt, that the bottom rosette is intended to suggest Hunting Stewart (the regimental tartan) and the top rosette is either a later addition, or the closest ribbon they were able to find to match the kilt.

[figheadair]

Thank you Peter, I would not have gotten MacGregor in a thousand years. I looked right at it and could not make that connection.

So the bottom one is still MacKenzie even with the yellow stripes?

If I had to guess it would be that it's a pre-1928 Canadian Scottish Regiment pipers' kilt, that the bottom rosette is intended to suggest Hunting Stewart (the regimental tartan) and the top rosette is either a later addition, or the closest ribbon they were able to find to match the kilt.

I'm not certain whether it's actually yellow or a faded white in one direction but the sett is MacKenzie and not Hunting Stewart IMHO - white with black guards on the green and red on the blue (purple) with double tram lines too.

[imrichmond]

I wonder if the MacGregor tartan rosette has something to do with honouring Lt.-Col. John MacGregor, VC. MacGregor won his Victoria Cross during the first world war, although not fighting with the Canadian Scottish. In World War II, he did serve with the Canadian Scottish and, having been promoted to Lt.-Col., commanded that regiment's 2nd battalion until his retirement in 1946. He is buried here in Powell River, BC and his photo is prominently displayed in the local Legion hall. It's hard to see what other connection the MacGregor tartan might have with the Canadian Scottish.

According to this website http://pipesforfreedom.com/webtxt/05...EGIMENT%20.htm, the Canadian Scottish pipers wore the Lennox tartan until 1949. The black and white photos of WWII CS pipers on that site clearly show them wearing the Lennox tartan. Given that MacGregor was in the regiment from 1940 to 1946, it is quite possible that the rosette was in his honour. The kilt doesn't look old enough to predate WWII by much.

[OC Richard]

Thanks for that link!

It makes it seem even more likely that this is a Canadian Scottish piper's kilt.

Note this fascinating bit:

The 1st Battalion Canadian Scottish Pipes and Drums served with the regiment throughout the Second World War. Until 1949 that pipe band wore Lennox tartan, which was the band tartan of the old 16th Battalion in the First World War. Today one Lennox tartan ribbon is retained in the full dress uniform of Canadian Scottish pipers, with the Hunting Stewart kilt and plaid.

I was thinking that the 'ribbon' might be a rosette but no! It's referring to a pipe drone ribbon