History of the MacGregor of Cardney Tartan?

[Deil the Yin]

Disclaimer: I know this topic has been brought up before in some degree, and I wasn't going to post it, but was encouraged by someone "who kens tartan" that it would be a worthwhile discussion. Since originally writing I've lost the links that I originally put in- sorry. I'll see if I can dig them up again or maybe someone can make an addendum to the sighted articles and tartan swatches etc...

I'm curious if anyone has more detailed information/history on what is commonly called "Hunting MacGregor" by the weavers, but which Sir Malcolm MacGregor of MacGregor says should be MacGregor of Cardney (and only worn by that family). It seems at odds with the generally naming of tartans that the so called Hunting MacGregor is the exact same set as the Clan or Red MacGregor tartan, whereas virtually all other "hunting" tartans have their own set/pattern apart from the formal "clan" tartan (as far as I can tell). Given the convoluted nature of Clan tartans, I suppose this may not necessarily be as noteworthy as it may seem.

The crux of my perplexity is the Chief declaring that MacGregor of Cardney "...should only be worn by that family" where this tartan is, and probably has been, widely available from a multitude of weavers and is greatly popular with clan members at large. I suppose also it should be enough that my chief says it is so, but it is not so easy for me in this particular case. I am not questioning my Chief's authority on this per se, and certainly mean no disrespect, but simply want to better understand what from my estimation goes against common tartan practice. To wit: most clan tartans are only nominally associated with their actual clan/family, though most folk seem very keen to find/have an actual historical connection etc; so when there is a very personal and close connection with a tartan as per Sir Malcolm's story of the "hunting" MacGregor (see Chief's Letter above), it would seem logical for the clan to embrace this (even more). Sir Malcolm's letter states that the Cardney family wore this tint of the tartan ever after it was accidentally died so, but it is not made clear that no one else wore it. Given that the garments created from the Cardney's original weaving of this particular shade of the Clan tartan likely lasted multiple generations (kilts being past down from father to son etc), this seems not out of the ordinary. Being his great uncle, would that also put it at a time when folk still commonly had their tartans custom woven (as opposed to picking their tartan out online :P)? Of course wanting to use their own wool it would have to be "custom" etc.

The "accidental" nature of this tartan is what creates the initial loophole (no pun intended) in my mind, at least, to this being a "private/reserved" tartan because its invention was seemingly not meant to be set apart from other MacGregor tartan (initially at least). It could very well be that Sir Malcolm is simply upholding what became a unique family tradition within the MacGregor heritage at large, as opposed to an explicit rule of this tartan's creator to be "Cardney family wear only" (and I'm very curious to know...). I can't find the reference now, but I remember reading that someone stated Sir Malcolm's Great Uncle (who instigated the wine coloured tartan) wore the clan or Red MacGregor tartan at his wedding as opposed to his Cardney Tartan. I could be mis-remembering this story, and not remembering the source I would have no idea if it was accurate or not (which is one reason I am petitioning this forum... ). This "tale" also goes toward my impression contrary to Sir Malcolm's declaration on the matter of the "hunting" tartan only being worn by the Cardney family, so it would help (comfourt me) to know if there were any truth in it.

In any case it would be very interesting to know more about this tartan's colourful history (pun intended).

Cheers,
Wesley


Submitted while wearing Lochcarron Weathered MacGregor 4-yard box pleat from Matt Newsome.

[figheadair]

For those unfamiliar with the background to this readers can do no better that to read Matt Newsome's blog on the MacGregor tartans - http://blog.albanach.org/2006/05/macgregor-tartans.html

I would tend to agree that a variation in shade, in this case a scarlet to a cherry red, does not make a different tartan and if that were all that was involved then technically I would classify them as both simply MacGregor. However, I have always understood that there is one crucial difference between the standard sett and Cardney and that is that the standard white stripe is grey in the Cardney and that is how it appears in a lot of old trade samples. The matter is confused by a dull red version with a white stripe also being sold under both names.

Since the 1930s, the cherry red/maroon colouration with either a grey or white stripe has been called variously MacGregor of Cardney, Hunting MacGregor and occasionally MacGregor of Cardney Hunting. I visited Old Cardney about 30 years ago and he was adamant that their tartan had a grey line.

Wesley raises the tricky question of what to do when one's chief makes a dictate that's at odds with logic/history and which seems akin to King Canute trying to hold back the waves. In this MacGregor is not alone; my own High Chief for example has tried to argue that only his immediate family should wear the blue and green version of the Lord of the Isles Hunting.

The Genie is well and truly out of the bottle. In this case the dull red version is widely worn and it is simply foolhardy for the chief to argue otherwise. There is one simple way in which he could seek to regain some control over the controversy which would be to recognise the grey stripe version as Cardney and request that it be retained for that branch of the clan, and keep the dull red/white line setting as an undress or alternative standard MacGregor. Whether he would have any success over the Trade is questionable and the fact remains that many MacGregors will already own a kilt or other items in the grey line version so I suspect that in reality the tide has already come in.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I was honored to host Sir Malcolm and his wife at the Scottish Tartans Museum a few years ago and we had a wonderful conversation about tartan -- the MacGregors and blessed to have clan chief who truly cares about the tartan and has put some real thought into the matter.

No, as to the MacGregor of Cardney tartan, Sir Malcolm confirmed for me the story of it's "accidental" creation. He also confirmed that while strictly speaking it should be reserved for the Cardney family (in his chiefly opinion), he also stated to me that he realizes and understands that it has been offered on the market for quite a long time as "Hunting MacGregor" and that as many clansmen across the globe have purchased it and are wearing it as "Hunting MacGregor" he certainly will not begrudge anyone wearing the tartan.

As to the comment about the chief's uncle (Cardney) wearing a different tartan at his wedding, I think I do recall Sir Malcolm mentioning a story to that effect. If I recall correctly he wore either the red MacGregor tartan or the red and black MacGregor (aka Rob Roy). When we were discussing tartan at the museum I remember Lady Fiona asking her husband why his uncle didn't wear his own tartan at his wedding. Sir Malcolm's reply was something to the effect of "He liked the red one better." So there you go! :-)

[figheadair]

Matt,

Thoughts about grey vs white stripe and whether that should be the differentiation between the Cardney and Hunting?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Matt,

Thoughts about grey vs white stripe and whether that should be the differentiation between the Cardney and Hunting?

When I was discussing this tartan with Sir Malcolm the white/grey stripe did not come up. But I can always email him and ask!

It seems to make sense to me on the face of it as the origin of the tartan is an overdyed length of cloth, which would darken the originally white stripe.

[Deil the Yin]

Guid stuff, yall. Thanks for the input and the added link.

Aye,
Wesley

[Deil the Yin]

... However, I have always understood that there is one crucial difference between the standard sett and Cardney and that is that the standard white stripe is grey in the Cardney...

By-the-bye... my Cardney/Hunting tartan has a white stripe; most definitely NOT grey. I am suspicious though about how large the sett is? Does that make a technical difference? Now that I check it, the sett on my weathered MacGregor is considerably larger than on my Cardney tartan. Maybe that has more to do with the weaver? It would be interesting to know.

Curiouser and curiouser...
Wesley

[figheadair]

Makes no difference really. The proportion of the colours to each other is more important but historically speaking even these were hugely variable as can be seen by looking at Wilsons' counts in their 1819 Key Pattern book.

In their MacGregor Murray the broad red to bordering green bar size ranges from 82-38 to 218-50 i.e the green was anything from about 46% to 23% of the size of the red.