Selvedge types, swish v- durability choice

[AKScott]

Looking for stories, experiences, what have you.

From combing other threads here it seems like the very best swish of all comes from cloth woven with traditional "selvedge" as ably illustrated by our own figheadair, in this paper he published: http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/Tra...e_patterns.pdf ,

Figure one reproduced here:



I have some House of Edgar yardage in my clan red with this selvedge on it, and I really like the pattern.

My Loch Carron Strome tank has the Loch Carron tuck in selvedge that looks like this from the factory:



I think the tuck in selvedge is pretty rugged stuff. These are a different piece of the same patter Loch Carron Strome.

This is a corner of my yardage that was originally fringed three sides of purling ago. Even with the weft threads taken out the selvedge stays in place for days:



And doesn't really want to come out:



I also have an inexpensive (<$200) kilt with a hem in it. This kilt I am willing to wear barefoot on the deck while grilling supper.




So I wore my wedding tank over to my fiance's house one time and within four minutes she commented that the tuck in selvedge tank has a lot lot lot better swish than the hemmed less expensive kilt.

So specifically my question to open this thread is how much durability would I be giving away (and how much more swish would my wife enjoy) moving from tuck in to traditional selvedge?


I can get my clan red in either selvedge, but among the regular and Sobieski variants the one I prefer is only available in traditional selvedge. Clan red is what my clan uses for "dress tartan", this red kilt for me would be specifically for dinner dates, church, perhaps dinner parties, that sort of thing, maybe to an office day at the hospital with no patient care. No field dressing of moose or oil changes and etc.

[figheadair]

Looking for stories, experiences, what have you.

So specifically my question to open this thread is how much durability would I be giving away (and how much more swish would my wife enjoy) moving from tuck in to traditional selvedge?

No stories or experiences but an observation and allowing for the obvious that from the techy point that neither a tucked or folded hem is a selvedge.

For a given weight of cloth a turned hem will always be thicker than a folded, glued and pressed one. Additionally, the machine sewing on a turned hem will affect the ability, albeit ever so slightly, of the cloth to move as the stitching will constrain that ability of the individual threads to slide against each other as the fabric ripples.

If you had to pick one for better movement then go for the glued one. I still find the visual effect displeasing but one thing to watch out for, and which can ameliorate the assault on one's eye, is to ensure that the kilt is made with the tuck on the inside. You might think that that's a statement of the blindingly obvious but I've seen kilts from at least one maker here in Scotland with the glued hem on the outside and it looks dreadful.

[AKScott]

No stories or experiences but an observation and allowing for the obvious that from the techy point that neither a tucked or folded hem is a selvedge.

I agree technically, but a hem is found on the bottom edge of (some) less expensive kilts. And my fiance noticed hemmed is less swishy than Loch Carron tuck-in selvedge, quickly.

For a given weight of cloth a turned hem will always be thicker than a folded, glued and pressed one. Additionally, the machine sewing on a turned hem will affect the ability, albeit ever so slightly, of the cloth to move as the stitching will constrain that ability of the individual threads to slide against each other as the fabric ripples.

So less swish. Makes perfect sense now that you spelled it out.

If you had to pick one for better movement then go for the glued one.

I have seen pictures of glued selvedge. I don't have any yardage in hand, but your point of view makes sense.

I still find the visual effect displeasing but one thing to watch out for, and which can ameliorate the assault on one's eye, is to ensure that the kilt is made with the tuck on the inside. You might think that that's a statement of the blindingly obvious but I've seen kilts from at least one maker here in Scotland with the glued hem on the outside and it looks dreadful.

I didn't even think of that, blindingly obvious indeed; happy to have found (I just checked) my tank has the tuck-in selvedge fuzz on the inside all the way around.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

AKScott,

I would suggest that the difference in "swish" which your fiance immediately noticed between your new 16 oz Lochcarron kilt and your older, less expensive kilt, may have less to do with the selvage (or lack thereof) and more to do with the amount of cloth in the kilt, or the weight of the cloth in the kilt.

I know your Lochcarron kilt is made of heavy weight (16 oz) worsted wool and contains approximately 8 yards of cloth. I don't know the details of your $200 kilt, but I would assume (because of the price) that it either contains less than 8 yards of fabric, and/or that the fabric is a lighter weight wool, or perhaps a non-woolen cloth. Any of these would result in noticeably less "swish and swing" than a heavy weight wool kilt gives you.

I agree with what Peter says about a sewn hem on the kilt restricting movement of the fabric slightly. But would anyone notice a measurable difference in "swish and swing" between a kilt made with a traditional selvage and a modern tuck-selvage? I doubt it.