Discussion with the Lyon Office

[Harold Cannon]

Below is a discussion that I thought some would be interested in.

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Dear Mr. Cannon,

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. I can confirm that wearing your Arms or crest on a pin would not cause any difficulty and there would be no need to contact the Procurator Fiscal.

Yours sincerely,

Bruce Gorie




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From: harold cannon [mailto:haroldcannon@hotmail.com]
Sent: 11 December 2012 14:18
To: Court of the Lord Lyon - Lyon Office
Subject: RE: Arms from outside the jurisdiction of the Lyon Court being used on a short term basis in Scotland.


Dear Mr. Gorie,

Thank you for your reply. The only way that I could see my arms being used other than what you have mentioned, would be possibly displaying my banner of arms or my crest in the form of a pin.

Would I need to check with the Procurator Fiscal to see if my intentions would be allowed? If so could I get contact information for him?

Yours In Service,
Chaplain, Harold Cannon



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Subject: RE: Arms from outside the jurisdiction of the Lyon Court being used on a short term basis in Scotland.
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:25:45 +0000
From: Court_of_the_Lord_Lyon_-_Lyon_Office...and.gsi.gov.uk
To: haroldcannon@hotmail.com


Dear Mr. Cannon,

Thank you for your further e-mail and please accept my apologies for not responding sooner.

It is certainly the case that the use or display of unlawful Arms, that is Arms that are not on record in the Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland in name of the bearer or to which he or she is in right, could cause difficulties if it came to the attention of the Procurator Fiscal to the Court of the Lord Lyon. However, while the Lord Lyon cannot formally authorize use of unregistered Arms, it would not cause any difficulty if Arms on record elsewhere were displayed in Scotland while the owner was here for a short period such as you mention. Such occasions might be while attending a clan gathering or similar event or, during your stay, using headed notepaper bearing your Arms, or displaying your Arms on a table banner at a formal function. You do not say how you might use your Arms but I do not think it would be appropriate for the Arms to be displayed, for example, on publicity material being distributed in Scotland but whether this sort of display would cause you difficulty would be for the Procurator Fiscal to decide if it came to his attention.

I do hope this is of help, but if anything is unclear or you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Yours sincerely,

Bruce Gorie

Bruce Gorie
Secretary to Lyon Office,
Court of the Lord Lyon,
HM New Register House,
Edinburgh,
EH1 3YT
Tel: 0131 556 7255
Fax: 0131 557 2148





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From: harold cannon [mailto:haroldcannon@hotmail.com]
Sent: 10 December 2012 23:54
To: Court of the Lord Lyon - Lyon Office
Subject: Arms from outside the jurisdiction of the Lyon Court being used on a short term basis in Scotland.


I just wanted to touch base on this as I have not heard a reply from my origional email.

Yours In Service,
Chaplain, Harold Cannon



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From: haroldcannon@hotmail.com
To: lyonoffice@scotland.gsi.gov.uk
Subject: Arms from outside the jurisdiction of the Lyon Court being used on a short term basis in Scotland.
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 01:41:28 +0000


Mr. Gorie,

Here in the United States there is no heraldic authority so we are free to assume arms if we wish. There is a great group call the American Heraldry Society which I am a member of that has set out a basic guide for heraldic practice in the United States. I have created a coat of arms for myself with the help and guidance of experienced heraldic artists. I have also had them registered here in the U.S. and also with the Cronista de Armas de Castilla y León, that being said would I be accorded the right to use my arms on a temporary visit to Scotland? The trip would be about two weeks at the longest and I would have occasion to use them in conjunction with some activities that I would be attending. Some have told me that I could be fined or possibly arrested for using my arms as they are not granted the Lyon Court. I feel that there would not be any harm as this would be a short term trip and probably a once in a lifetime trip. My understanding is that an armiger may use there arms in Scotland for a certain amount of time before they must be registered with the Lyon Court. I would greatly appreciate you shedding some light on this subject for me as there seems you be a good amount contradicting information floating around. Thank you for your time and attention and I happily await your reply.

Your In Service,
Chaplain, Harold Cannon

[Cygnus]

Very interesting indeed, and very informative. Thank you for sharing!

[WVHighlander]

I, too, had a similar conversation with Mr. Gorie on the topic and had a similar response. My understanding is you are free to use your arms and only need to look at registration if you plan to stay in excess of 180 days in Scotland, have a domicile there, or plan to frequently (no metric for what constitutes as frequently) visit the country.

[Downunder Kilt]

One important restriction one must note, is that if you are planning to use your arms for any commercial enterprise in Scotland and they are not registered with the Lord Lyon, then you may find the Prosecuter Fiscal on you case quick smart. Ask Donald

[Harold Cannon]

LOL! Yeah I heard about that!

I, like most people, would only be using my arms in conjunction with activities of my clan.